Hair Hero
Welcome to "Hair Hero," the ultimate podcast for hairstylists seeking inspiration, knowledge, and growth.
Join your host, Ryan Weeden, founder of the 8-figure brand Masters of Balayage, as he shares his journey from being flat broke to becoming massively successful, all through the power of hair.
Each week, Ryan engages in intimate conversations with industry leaders, icons, and trendsetters, uncovering their secrets to success and sharing actionable insights.
Tune in to elevate your craft, fuel your passion, and become the hero of your own hair journey. New episodes drop every week—don't miss out!
Hair Hero
Earn More By Doing Less (w/ Nina Tulio)
Ever felt like you were "just a hairstylist"? Join us for an uplifting conversation with Nina Tulio as we shatter that misconception and celebrate the newfound respect for hairstylists post-COVID-19. From personal stories of being undervalued to practical advice on setting boundaries, this episode is brimming with insights on how to thrive in a saturated beauty market. Gain confidence in your craft and learn how to navigate the evolving landscape with flexibility and grace.
Tired of those endless to-do lists and the constant pressure to keep up with social media? We share strategies to manage your workload, set realistic goals, and celebrate those small but significant wins. Learn how to shift your mindset from comparison to collaboration, and use others’ successes as motivation. This episode is your guide to focused productivity and finding balance amidst the hustle, ensuring you stay motivated without burning out.
Ever thought about expanding your skills into the digital realm? Discover the world of e-books and online courses with our candid discussion on the highs and lows of digital hairstyling education. From our own experiences, including a less-than-perfect live challenge launch, we highlight the importance of passion, perseverance, and continuous learning. Plus, dive into the crucial topic of pricing confidence—learn to set firm prices and maintain professionalism, even in the face of challenging client interactions. Elevate your hairstyling career with actionable tips and real-world advice from our enriching chat with Nina Tulio.
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Go to www.mobmastersacademy.com and use code MYLIFE at checkout.
Be Bold, be Brave, be You.
Thanks for you listening.
-Ryan
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Welcome everybody. I'm sitting here with my good friend, nina Tulio hey, that's her right there, it's me. We have zero agenda right now. We've had a lot of conversations recently. We've picked each other's brains live a lot on podcasts and interviews and on stage and we're just like let's just interview each other, let's just talk and see where this goes, and we always end up with some kind of value right Sure of course Making things personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know our audience is hairstylists and I always keep thinking about there's just such a lack of confidence in our business probably just in life, but especially in our business being in this career. Where a lack of confidence in our business probably just in life, but especially in our business, being in this career, where a lot of people grow up, including myself, being told you're just a hairstylist, Like that phrase, just a hairstylist. It's a powerful phrase and I think a lot of us are wounded by it, sometimes to the point of inaction and not really believing that we can go very far. Were you ever told that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean not by, thankfully, not by friends and family, but by other people or people maybe who I thought were my friends at the time. Now that I'm thinking about it kind of looked down upon. You know, oh, you're going to go to beauty school. Now, I was a techie. I went to Botech so shout out to all my Botech people who are watching but I went to Botech, but I did have to go. I had to finish like 250 hours at beauty school. I was a night student. So that was like a double check because I was a night student and I think there is this misconception that it isn't a trade or it isn't anything special.
Speaker 2:However, I think that the needle has moved since COVID. I think COVID happened and then after that, us as hairstylists really started to take back our power and I think we really started to realize hold on a minute, we are valuable. We change the way that people feel about themselves. We have so much magic within us to share and I think because of the need for us during COVID because people were like, oh, I have to get my hair done or I just want to talk to my hairstylist because people share a lot with us I think hairstylists really have now moved the needle to gaining more confidence. Is it? Can we work on it still, of course, because I think there always is going to be that like I'm just a hairstylist undertone, but I think we're moving in the right direction, don't you think?
Speaker 1:I think so, yeah, yeah. I feel like we're a lot more saturated in the market, though I think there's maybe new things that are challenging us now. I agree with that. I think back when I was coming up as a hairstylist and people that were close to me were saying you're just a hairstylist, why don't you go to college? There wasn't a lot of proof out there that hairstylists could actually succeed or go that far, because there wasn't social media. This is before Instagram, before Facebook.
Speaker 1:Way back in the day Way back in the day and I was thinking the other day too when I was an actor in New York. Before I got into hair, I phones were just coming out.
Speaker 1:Right, listen, I was on a pager, a pager and I was so excited to get my page and I got this 800 number so that people could call me, because I didn't want people to bother me, call me too much. Yeah, that damn thing never went off and if it did, it was like some fax to the wrong number or something and I'd go, I'd call. This is the big role, this is the big roll, this is the big roll. And it was like eech, bleep, mm-mm, like somebody trying to go online back in the day.
Speaker 2:Oh, that horrible sound, that's the worst.
Speaker 1:But you're saying things shifted after COVID where, yeah, a lot of us felt like we didn't have any purpose, but then we couldn't go get our hair done.
Speaker 1:We couldn't feel good when we look in the mirror and we see our hair and it's just long and disheveled and we can't cut it ourselves or color it ourselves yeah especially the ones that are our trusted gray-haired clients, that, yes, when that starts to grow up they lose their minds, right, and then it's like they reach for the quickest box color and then they know they're just ruining it.
Speaker 1:But they have to put something on it like a Band-Aid and that creates all kinds of problems for the hairstylist in the end. But yeah, I think you're right that people hairstylists can see the potential. Now it's visible that somebody can really start from nothing and create this wildly successful career. I think one of the biggest challenges I see, though is that, it's just, and I know, you've seen this too everybody's a coach. Now.
Speaker 2:Everybody's had an online course, everybody's an expert now, or quote unquote for all these.
Speaker 1:And some of them will be successful. A lot of them won't. They'll learn how hard it really is to be successful in those fields. But it's probably very intimidating to somebody coming up. What do you think a stylist coming into this industry now needs to know to not just survive but to thrive?
Speaker 2:Well, a couple different things, I think, because the way that they're coming out of school now and going into the industry is completely different. I do think that, in a lot of ways, stylists are more confident. They're you know, hey, this is my time. I want to make sure that I'm balanced and I'm not spending seven days a week at the salon, Like they have a little bit more boundaries, I think, but I think you know, when they're entering the beauty space.
Speaker 2:I think it's so important to do two things A be flexible, Because what you see I'm going to say this loud and clear to the camera what you see on Instagram is not reality. So you're going to have to work hard to create a career in this business. It isn't about getting out of school working two, three days a week as a full-time hairstylist, getting only the clients that you want to see working only nine to two. This is not a realistic expectation. Now I always say you have to scale up, to scale back. So you have to work hard, you have to put the time in. You're going to come in early, You're going to stay late in the beginning. Still have boundaries, yes, but you get out of this business what you put into it. So I think, be flexible in your approach and not looking at Instagram as your guide.
Speaker 2:Look at real hairstylists that have done real things and if they're living the success that you want, do what they've done. Now don't copy them and take all of their shit. Oh, can I curse here? Yeah, sure, Okay, Shit, Fuck, Shit, yeah, yeah, like don't copy their stuff and take their shit, but like it's like Tony Robbins talks about right, Like when you see somebody that has done something and you want to do it, you've got to, you got to learn what they have done and you've got to apply yourself and put in the time the other thing. So be flexible.
Speaker 2:Number one. And number two do all of the hair. Like don't get out of school and say I only want to do blondes or I only want to specialize in this. Do all of the things. Get yourself engrossed in long hair, curly hair, short hair, textured hair, you know buzz cuts. Like do all of the things and you know what. You may get into it and you're like this isn't for me, this isn't for me. But don't pigeonhole yourself right away, Because I think it kind of takes away from the experience you know and again, scale up to scale back, you get all of that experience and knowledge and education, and then you can decide what you want to niche down into. So that's what I would say, but I'm curious to know something, oh gosh what.
Speaker 2:How do you think? Do you think social media has helped or hurt our business, our industry?
Speaker 1:It hurts our business. I think it helps if you're focused on the benefits of it. If you're focused on the benefits of it as an as a artist, as a creator, then yes, it's. It's incredible what it can do to put our work in front of the right people if we are focused on that. But, god damn, it's a time suck. It's a time suck and I find myself scrolling and I actually was scrolling and I caught this, this meme, or this post earlier of this guy that I follow, really intelligent guy, and he was saying things you should do instead of to be more productive. One of them instead of scrolling for 15 minutes, go write down three goals for the day.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I never usually comment on posts and I wrote just something down. It was in good humor and heart, whatever, but I said but then I wouldn't have seen this post if I was just scrolling aimlessly. So even that's why you're saying it's not real, because we want those people to scroll aimlessly and endlessly, because they're going to see our stuff and, yes, it might resonate in things, but I think we need to learn as creators and business owners. Are we spending the next 15 minutes to waste time or should we use this to be productive? And if it is to go on Instagram and do research or work?
Speaker 1:I mean, what are you doing research on? What are those goals that you're focusing on? Are you trying to get some inspiration pictures to post or comment on or to engage on? Because if not, then you're probably just wasting your time and you should pull out your journal. You should come up with some other ideas. You should read a book on how to scale, grow your business, create a better client experience something that's going to compound over the years where you can actually make more money, which will give you more time to do what you want to do, and then you can have that nine to two part-time schedule and make full-time income.
Speaker 2:Sure, absolutely yes, cause it's possible, you know, but it's like I think we want to get there too fast. Like, don't rush. You know, enjoy the experience and under, give yourself grace. Like there is a process to it and so you have to go with the process, and everyone's process is different, you know. That's why the comparison game on Instagram is so dangerous because I'm not getting enough likes, I'm not getting enough comments, people don't like my stuff. Well, what does that mean about me? And it could be very harmful to our mental health.
Speaker 2:You know, I've actually had to scale back a little bit from Instagram myself because it was starting to get too loud. Where it was almost like I was, I forgot who I was and what I came here to do. Do you know what I'm saying? And I was like hold on a minute. This is like not me. I'm not showing up and serving the way that I feel is authentic to me because there's so much noise around me. So sometimes it is good to take a little bit of a pause, but it can be helpful too, you know where. It gives us exposure and it gets us connections, like you know us, and we get to meet different people and, you know, really help other people, but I think all in moderation. You know, you really have to be smart and intentional.
Speaker 2:I think that was like a lot of what you're saying. Like I think we scroll, you know, maybe give yourself five minutes to scroll, but then be intentional about the other 10 minutes that you're in it. And how is this going to enhance my business type thing?
Speaker 1:Right. Am I just using this time to escape? Because if you're using that time to escape, then just do it, you know, but don't sit there for four hours because you're going to, you're going to put yourself into this rabbit hole where you're probably going to leave that rabbit hole pretty depressed because, you're going to see people doing the things that you want to be doing, living the life that you want to live, taking the vacations that you want to take right, having all these great things, and you're going to.
Speaker 1:It's like sometimes you'll be going through, you'll see a video and you're like that's a great idea. I would love to incorporate something like that into my business, save it, put it in a folder, but then you just keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling and 30 minutes later.
Speaker 2:You forgot about it.
Speaker 1:It's sitting there, it's not helping you. When you see something that sparks that creativity, that passion, you need to act on it. Yeah, oh, absolutely, because most of the days we don't wake up like, yeah, today is going to be a great day. I'm inspired every single second of every single day. I am going to create something wonderful today. A lot of times it's like God damn okay, get up. Kids are on your face.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:Today I woke up and my son's got a bloody nose, or you know. There's just something that they have to put in there. Another thing of laundry we've got to do and you've got to make the breakfast. You go through the routine and you can't just wake up and just be like the sun wakes me up when I want to wake up and I go meditate for an hour and a half and I go straight to the gym and run two miles.
Speaker 2:All the healthy food.
Speaker 1:And all that is by 6.30 am.
Speaker 2:Now I have the whole rest of the day to create the whole rest of the day to create the whole rest of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, I'll work on something, a new project, for an hour, from 10.15 to 10.45, and I'll go for a nice long walk. Like things rarely work out, the way you plan them yeah for sure, I think, one we need to be resilient. I think that's one trait that we could all really work on is to be resilient and be okay and flexible to life throwing curveballs at us Sure pivot yeah, good old pivot.
Speaker 1:I used to be the guy with 17,000 things on a checklist and if I didn't check off every single one of those by the end of the day, I would lose my mind. I would feel like I was always incomplete and I would work until the middle of the morning just to get things done. And I'd wake up early to get things done and I was burning the candle at both ends, right. And I got to a point where if I'm overwhelmed, or if I have this whole list of things which there's always a list but some things will have more weight and priority than something else, I'll say, okay, if it's a busy day or something comes up, or I forgot that I, you were going to be here today and I had all these other things planned that I was going to do, then it's just like my week. You know, for context, I was talking to Nina a few days ago and she's like well, yeah, I'm going to see you on Thursday. I'm like you are. She's like yeah, I'm coming to shoot. You're like this Thursday.
Speaker 2:This Thursday. I'm like yeah, in the calendar. I'm like all right, this is going to be great.
Speaker 1:So on days like that I say to myself okay, what's one thing I can get done today that's going to help move the needle closer to my goals. So it's just one thing. Just get one thing done. It doesn't have to be earth shattering, but just something that's going to give me that sense of accomplishment at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's so important and I think we're so hard on ourselves. So if we the bigger the list, the more the letdown I feel, because there's only so much you can do in the day. And so I love what you're saying and I agree with that almost to the point where if I have all the things I have to do and if I'm like if I can just get two of these done today, then I feel like I did something with my day. So I do feel like lists are great and we should have them, but we have to be realistic in our approach and also know that we've got to give grace. Things happen, things come up. You know phone calls you got to get a meeting we forgot about, like these are just things that occur. A client shows up at the wrong time and day, so now you got to get her in. You know it just is what it is. But I think, give yourself a little bit of grace and just celebrate the fact that you got two things done for the day.
Speaker 1:So I see. So you had to be one better than me, so you get two things done.
Speaker 2:I get one thing done, I got two things done it was so intentional I did that.
Speaker 1:Tomorrow I actually get three things done each day.
Speaker 2:Oh, by Saturday I'll be on four. Okay, get ready, and if you don't have three things done, I'm coming for you.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess I'm back to my list of 17,000 things up in the middle of the night. And here we go, here we go. Clock is ticking, nina.
Speaker 2:Nina's on three. I got to get on it.
Speaker 1:I'm curious, though I know you probably didn't do that on purpose, or maybe you did, but are you, are you, are you competitive as a person?
Speaker 2:I can be yes it depends, though, what it is.
Speaker 1:Normally I'm just a collaborative lover of a person.
Speaker 2:That's just who I am. I'm a collaborative lover of a person. I just want all the things for everyone. I want everyone to do well. But if you give me a challenge, I will show up at 100%, 150%, and if it has something to do, like if we're going to, if we are going to run down the street to the end of the stop sign, and whether we win something or not, I am going to haul ass to try to win. So in those instances, yes, I am, but I'm not competitive in the sense of like, ooh, they're doing that and I have to do. No, my mind doesn't even, I can't even process that, because I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing, good for you, that's great. Maybe it will encourage me to do a little bit more, but I just don't have that competitive edge because I am a collaborative lover.
Speaker 1:I think that's actually a good topic to bring up, because Instagram, going back to that and the social world of not real things people post their wins.
Speaker 2:Let's just be honest.
Speaker 1:It's not like it's fake, but they're posting all their big wins, for the most part, and all the great things in their life. They're leaving out all the bullshit that they're not showing or what's underneath that smile and happiness that got to that point and how terrible of a trip it was. But they found this one moment to be like let's just get an Instagram photo. You know, force that smile out for the gram. You know force that smile out for the gram. But I feel like with hairdressers today and whoever else might be on social media and in their industry, I know it's predominant with our industry.
Speaker 1:Sure, is that competition? Yeah, you see somebody that's doing something that you want to do and maybe you feel that's another reason why we beat ourselves up, because we feel like we should be able to do that. We should be doing that. Screw that person, I'm going to do it better than them, when really that's not going to help us. No, we need to just be look at that and be like, okay, well, they're doing something awesome, I need to do something awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how can I do that? How can I do something like that?
Speaker 1:or use that as even motivation, but not to like get them more motivation, to just like do my own thing and then focus back in my lane, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because I think people spend too much time over here, like if somebody is doing something. They're so hyper-focused on what they're doing and what their message is and what their branding looks like and how they're doing hair that they forget how talented they are. And so it does. You know comparison, we know that is the thief of joy, so we know this already, and if we stay in that space too long, it will just continue to dim and dim and dim our own light, and so it's good to allow people to energize you and inspire you to do things.
Speaker 2:I get inspired all the time from different people that I'm, you know, in contact with, but I'm inspired and cheering for them at the same time. It's different when you're inspired but then you're like screw that, why do they get to do? You know what I mean? There's a difference there, and I think you know that that's more of an internal thing, right, and things that we're, because I think we all are continuing to work on each other and we're all a work in progress. But I think being more collaborative is the key, and I love that over the last four years, we have become more of a collaborative industry. Like it isn't about. Well, they're over here and they're doing the same thing, so we have to stay apart. It's like, no, we're doing the same thing, let's come together. So I love that we have been more collaborative in our industry. For sure, it makes my heart happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my warm heart. That collaborative lover, yes, it makes me happy. Another thing I wanted to touch on, too, is you've got your Make that Money online bootcamp training program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, course, yep, you've been doing that for how many years now? It's been over four years since.
Speaker 1:I started. Make that Money, yes. How important do you think it is for stylists, for people in general, now to be focusing on? Should I do something digital? Should I create some kind of a book or an information product or something, even if it's not part of the industry? I mean, I was thinking about that because just because we do hair doesn't mean we don't want to maybe talk about side hustles and things, and we've many stories about somebody's side hustle becoming more lucrative and more exciting than what they're doing now. I mean, just because you're in hair, sometimes we lose passion for doing things like that, especially if we get burned out or stuck. How important is it for us to start dabbling into if you think it is at all into the digital world, especially?
Speaker 2:with AI now. Well, I think you have to be passionate about something first before you dive into that area. Again, just because everyone nowadays has a course doesn't mean we're going to have a course too, because it has to be something special and unique that is going to offer the audience something different. Right? No-transcript, it is a lot of work, a lot of work to create a course, even to create an e-book. Now, I feel like if you're going to start with something and you want to dabble a little bit, like, do an e-book first because it's a little easier, you have a little bit more control, there's not so many moving parts, right, you just have to get all of your content together, put it in a framework and then make it pretty and branded and then you off to the races with marketing it, right? But when it comes to an online course wow, I mean, we both know this there are you first and I'm in it right now re-recording Synergy. I want to hide under this chair because I have been working on it for three weeks. You're recording it, you have to create the content, then you have the slides or you're doing a whiteboard. Then who's filming it? Who's editing it? When are you uploading it, then if you're on Teachable, kajabi, whatever what platform, and then you have to sell the damn thing, so by the time you get to selling it, you're like exhausted.
Speaker 2:I think it's important if it's important to you and bettering your career, but do you have to have something? Not necessarily. Is it good maybe to have an ebook that's like a freebie to start off with if you are getting in the world or venturing into education, the independent education space? Yeah, you should have something tangible that you can share with people, that you can add a QR code at the end of a class or something? Yes, but if you're thinking about doing a digital course, take your time, do your research and lay it out, because it is. It is just a lot. It's very rewarding, but it's a lot of work for sure.
Speaker 2:So don't dive in headfirst.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, just like with anything, if you've got a big dream or something, I feel like the first step is actually just to start putting your getting your feet wet.
Speaker 1:do something moving toward it because I mean, you think, like I want to do an online course. Like you're saying, there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of things you have to put into place. I mean, you and I are experienced at it and we can turn it around faster than anybody, but it still takes months remember our online live live challenge that we did oh gosh, yeah, that was great. That was stressful as heck and that was.
Speaker 2:We did this live challenge and you probably weren't there and you probably totally missed the whole thing totally missed it.
Speaker 1:The marketing was shit, like we just didn't, we just threw everything together like the content was really great, and that's kind of a sad thing too. I mean, you can get it now on masters academy, which is fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Content's good. Yes.
Speaker 1:It's amazing, but we tried a new way to launch something and it just kind of fell on its face and I think it's important to call it out and it's nobody's fault, it's just, you get better each time.
Speaker 2:It's part of marketing though.
Speaker 1:We just got busy in our. You're doing your thing, I'm doing my thing. We'll come together again like we do now and we'll do something else or do it better next time. You're never going to be good the first time you do something.
Speaker 2:Well, you're never going to bat a hundred, no matter what. I mean and we both have been doing the online digital space for years and again it's trial and error. Sometimes things work and sometimes they don't, and I think it's good to you know, because you're not going to hit the mark every time, but I think it's just important to be flexible and pivot. You know it's like, okay, this didn't work, what can we do differently? What can we adjust? Never do a live three-day event ever again in life.
Speaker 2:That's what we're not going to do. But I think it's like, okay, we learned from that. It tested us and I think you know, these things are learning lessons that make you stronger. And then you're like, okay, I don't want to do that again, but I can do something different and now I can streamline it. So I think there's always testing and there's always learning involved and but don't be scared Like, don't be scared to do it. Like we just kind of hey, it kind of sucked.
Speaker 1:And we just moved. Let's do it, kind of an attitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did that, and then it didn't work out, but then we just kept moving.
Speaker 1:We didn't give up.
Speaker 2:Exactly, we didn't stop. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's also like you had mentioned about hairstylists when you're first getting started, you got to put in the time. You don't want to niche down too quick, because you might know what you like, but you don't know necessarily what you don't like. Right, you might like something more that you haven't tried yet, and that's why it's important to try everything at first. Take all the opportunities that you can.
Speaker 1:It's just dabble, dabble, dabble, dabble in it, and then you can find out okay, I really don't like that, I hate this. Ooh, I love this, I like this a little bit, and then you can start to narrow down on your focus, on your niche, so that we can specialize in I really like blondes, I really like curly hair, I really like doing perms. Never heard anybody say that, but I'm just sure somebody's there. I'm sure somebody's like I love somebody, somebody's like. Don't tell anybody that I specialize in perms because I have all the clients I need you know forever and ever.
Speaker 2:You know that's amazing.
Speaker 1:All the blue haired ladies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, and I. That's what's cool about our industry we get to pick and choose what we really like. But we have to get to a point where we can pick and choose because, let's be honest, the advice that I would give for a hairstylist that's 50% booked is going to be different than the advice I would give for someone who's 80% booked. You know, we have to understand, because there I don't know if you see this a lot on Instagram, but there's a lot of blanket advice, a lot of blanket statements Don't pre-book, don't close your books, don't do this, don't advertise your hiring. There's a lot of don't, don't, don't, don't.
Speaker 2:Well, and some of those things may work well for a business that is 85% booked, really, really in the trench, making money profitable and the demand is so high, right, but say that to someone who's 50% booked don't pre-book. I mean. I think that that's why it's important to understand that just because someone says something is working for them doesn't mean it's going to work for you. You have to know your business and you have to be aligned with your brand and core values so you can make good decisions instead of saying like oh, hourly pricing is trending, let's go on. Let me do hourly pricing and no shade on hourly pricing. We talked about this.
Speaker 2:I think it can work well for some hairstylists and I have some people that love it. I think it can work well for some hairstylists and I have some people that love it, but it's not for everyone. And if you just do it because it's trending and you do it because it kind of looks good for the moment, there's a lot of things that go into making your salon hourly pricing. So I think we have to be more. We have to look internal. You know I talk about this a lot Like A stop blaming what's going on out here for what's not happening in your business. Start looking within, like we have to start looking internal in our own leadership, in our own systems, in our own processes, in our own finances. Right, because we can't blame Judy anymore, because we're not making a profit. It's not Judy's fault.
Speaker 1:Judy didn't do it.
Speaker 2:Judy didn't do it and look, judy may be late, sometimes Maybe Judy doesn't show up, but if we don't have a process and a system for Judy, can't blame her Right, we're not. We train clients how we want to be treated, and so we have to take accountability for that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:The finger's pointed a lot. Oh, sure Right, sure Right, I can't be successful because of this. I'm not booked because of my salon owner. I'm not booked because I can't make enough money because of the area I live in Sure, there are tons of cases on top of that, though that will prove otherwise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and people who have been doing it. I mean, listen, I failed a million times as a salon owner and was literally in the trench as a salon owner 90K in debt, broke ass. Literally in the trench as a salon owner 90K in debt, broke ass, didn't know what I was going to do, had a team of people moved into a bigger space that had more rent and I just had to. Literally I talked about this at Hero. Look at my, and I see the mirror right there. Look at your. I had to look at myself in the mirror and say what are you doing? Like, why are you choosing these things? Like, get it together.
Speaker 2:And I think the more accountability we take, the more opportunity we have to get out of the feeling of stuck. You know, because I couldn't blame my team, I couldn't blame the creditors for calling me. It was my fault, I didn't pay my shit, I didn't have money to do that. I couldn't blame Judy for not showing up or for showing up and not wanting to get a treatment. I couldn't do that. And so I think accountability is huge in our industry. We have to really start looking at self and everything that you need to grow your business and to become or reach the level of success that you want. It's all in here and then we can grab and pull from different marketing or techniques or systems. But we've got to be solid within here first, because if not like me, I mean I wasn't solid within me first. That's why I started making really bad decisions and I tried to do all the things that I thought I should, or that people wanted me to, or that the salons were doing around me, and I failed. And so that mirror is such a good reflection and reminder of like hey, you can do this, like get your head out of your ass, literally, and start focusing on the things that you know are going to grow your business. And that's what helped me, and thankfully, because I would have lost my business.
Speaker 2:I mean it was twice that I almost closed before year five, and when you're an owner and you had a salon, you know when you have employees, that shit is heavy. It's a responsibility, like you opening your doors heavy. It's a responsibility, like you opening your doors, they're feeding their families with that, they're putting money away for mortgages and rent and children and colleges and just everyday living. It's such a huge responsibility. It actually still messes with me a little bit. Like it makes me emotional because like I would never want to disappoint them. So I had to make tough choices for me to do right by them, because they chose to work for me. You know, like I would have felt horrible if I couldn't have gotten us out of that, so I had to really do some deeper work.
Speaker 1:So the employees are real people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:They're not imaginary friends. They do have lives outside of work.
Speaker 2:They do have lives outside of work. Absolutely yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:What would you say is one of the biggest challenges that struggling hairstylists are having right now?
Speaker 2:I would say, well, if it's salon owners, it's hiring, okay For sure. If it, you know hairstylists, independent commission, you know owners all in general in hairstylist land, I would say, whew man. Um, I would say we still have a lot of pricing issues. We still have a lot of undercharging. We still have a lot of. Let me go on a Facebook group and see what they're charging and let me you know the salon down the street looks good. So let me you know there's a lot of that.
Speaker 1:Take it back off that and try to get behind it.
Speaker 2:Yep, I think there is a lot of people working over 40 hours a week because they have to pay the bills. And if you are working over 40 hours a week because you have to pay the bills, you're undercharging. There's no reason why you should not be able to work less than 40 hours a week. I like a 32 to 35 hour work week that you shouldn't be able to live the life that you want to live. So I think, overall, pricing is just and we've come far, but I still think that we get sucked back in sometimes to like, oh, she can't afford me today, or I feel bad because she's going through a hard time.
Speaker 2:We really want to set up ourselves for success in that case, because people are having a hard time, we want to lead with empathy, but we also want to have, maybe an options menu that's already based on price per minute, price per hour. So I just whip that thing right out of my back pocket and say, okay, kelly, it's okay, you can't afford to do your full balayage today, but let's do a partial. This is what it's going to be. This is what it's going to look like.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about that? Here it's on a menu. You create a menu or something, guidelines that you can stand behind. It's like it says it right here, so I can't change it. I'm not going to be like, well, judy, you know, well Judy's, please, going to do a little bit cheaper. Okay, just today, just today, we'll go a little bit cheaper. If they can't afford you, they can't afford you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's their choice. Like a lot of us put it's a luxury service?
Speaker 1:Yes, we like to. Mentally, it might affect us if we haven't had a haircut in a while. Sure, hair color, the grades are coming out, but it's not a life or death situation. Right, it's a luxury service. Somebody will be able to cut that person's hair, or?
Speaker 2:color that person's hair for cheaper.
Speaker 1:Yes, Guaranteed, Very true, but if they want to get a quality service and if you're somebody that's going to give them a quality service and not just the service, the experience I think I've noticed a lot of stylists fall back on skills and they just think their work is completely representative of the prices they should charge. We need to move away from yes, you've got to be good at what you do, but that's the baseline. When a client comes in, from the first interaction to the follow-up call or follow-up text, which you should be following up with every one of your clients the day after to make sure they're happy and liking it. If they're not happy, that's a great way time to connect with them and get them back in and fix anything before they go to the Yelp page. The entire experience is what's valuable.
Speaker 1:That's where the price comes in. Yes, the service is a given. Yes, they have to have a good haircut. They have to have a good color, Right. But are you just rushing through them one after the next, or are you making them feel safe and comfortable, enjoying the experience? They're not there all day like in some kind of a factory line just waiting to get their haircut, and even it could be the best haircut on the planet, but if they didn't enjoy being there with you, they're not gonna see the value in a high price.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, but I think the service still continues after they leave. The client experience still has to continue after they go. Like you mentioned, are you reaching out? What does that look like? Are you writing thank you cards to them, sending them in the mail? I know that's old school, but people love that. I've been doing that for 30 years. I mean I started doing that in 1996 when I, or 97, when I got out of school with the first salon I worked at, and I think are you keeping in touch with them? Email marketing? Are you sending them tidbits, tutorials, like once a month, even just to stay in front of them? But yes, how is your service, how can we serve you better? You know feedback forms, sending them out to your current clients once or twice a year. We really have to nurture the relationship after they leave. It doesn't just stop once they leave the door. You know they leave the door. It has to be more engaging afterwards. That is next level client experience.
Speaker 1:The first time I did that was one of my first. It was actually my first second salon job. First salon job ever was Supercuts. I started to work there for a little bit because I wanted to get started in the hair industry as fast as possible. I didn't have time. I didn't have time to assist financially, I just couldn't afford to take a job as an assistant for two years. That's typically what the programs were back then in the early 2000s, and so I'm like what's the fastest way I could kind of fake my way into a high-end salon. I needed experience right away, real world. So I looked into these. Who's got a quick training program that'll get me on the floor, get me doing hair cutting, whatever it is. I just want something. Supercuts Two-week training program. I'm on the floor doing 15 to 20 cuts a day, boom, boom, boom. Yes, it was mostly hair cutting, but it was something it was my hands in hair with real people that experience and I'm practicing doing color on the side.
Speaker 1:Three, four months later I went into this high-end salon and I said, hey, are you hiring? And yes, and I did an audition and did a pretty good job and I got the job. I mean good enough to get a job there.
Speaker 1:And I went from charging $12 a haircut to $70 a haircut in a matter of months there and I went from charging $12 a haircut to $70 a haircut in a matter of months there. And that leads me to once I started to get clients that were fed through the salon. I wanted to build up my clientele faster and build that rapport to get the referrals. So I was reaching out to my clients and the first person I ever reached out to this one client it was a male guy. He came in, gave him a haircut. I texted him the next day. Sorry, I didn't text him.
Speaker 1:I actually called him. I called him and I'm like. He's like, hey, I'm like, hey, this is your hairstyle. He's like who Like your hairstyles? You came in yesterday. He's like oh, oh, yeah, hey, hey, how you doing. I'm like I'm good, I just wanted to check in and see how you're liking your haircut. If there's anything you need adjusted, let me know. He's like oh, dude, this is a great haircut, it's one of the best I've ever had. Sorry, this is just so weird. I've never actually had a hairstylist call me before to check on my hair. He's like dude, just keep doing what you're doing. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm like cool. So he said, he sent me friends.
Speaker 1:He sent me and it wasn't just him, it was. It was something unusual, that was an extra personal touch, and we, we can't just give them the personal touch when they're in the chair. It's like got to extend beyond that. Uh, and yeah, it just. It changes everything. Think about you go to a service. It changes everything.
Speaker 2:Everything.
Speaker 1:Think about you go to a service, whether it's to get Botox or whether it's to I go to a chiropractor down the street, Awesome dude. Every time after my appointment I get an automated text that says if you love this service, you know, go to Yelp and do this. You know it's automated, it's generic, and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, Right, you know I love him it's automated, it's generic, and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, right, you know I love him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if he had reached out, you know. And she's like hey, ryan, it's me, you're Cairo. I just wanted to say I would really appreciate if you have any time today to go on here, give me a five star so I get more clients like you. Yeah, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd be like, oh, I would do it right there on the spot.
Speaker 2:It's more personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what sometimes we miss that mark because we're just so busy doing yeah, because we were so busy trying to make money, but the more time that you spend on the little details, the more money you will make. It does take a little bit longer, you know. You have to set a time aside.
Speaker 1:Something should be automated, like you should call everybody before their appointment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think calling people too now, like we're not really no one's answering but texting.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it could be very personalized. You can change it, like if they're talking about vacations. You know, maybe not a lot of people are doing handwritten thank you cards anymore because they're doing a lot of texts and emails. But I love the personal touch of that and if I go to a new spot and they sent me something like that whether I go to a new spa or what have you and I get, I'm like this is amazing and I am more energized to write them a review. For sure, Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I just got to tell you a quick pricing story before we sign off here and do other stuff that we're going to do today here for you're going to whatever. But when I first I was so, I had zero confidence. When I first started doing balayage, there was like no training out there. We didn't have like the programs that we as a company like provide now, and I kind of wish I had something like that, just bits and pieces I picked up from a stylist here and there, or YouTube video you know, granny, youtube video somewhere. I used to charge my clients based on the end result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, so I got you. So like Barbara turns around, and she's like, and you're like, it's only going to be $100 today.
Speaker 1:I told you it was going to be $200, but it's only just by your reaction. There were times I'd be like, how's $20?
Speaker 2:But you're saying, then you think that her hair looks like it's $120.
Speaker 1:I know I'm just like just don't tell anybody, just don't tell anybody. I did it and then when I started to hit it, you know, 100 out of 100, I'd be like 350.
Speaker 2:Stand tall shoulders back, like I think we've all been there where we either have a threshold Like I had a $200 threshold in shoulders back. Like I think we've all been there where we either have a threshold Like I had a $200 threshold in my salon Like I'd start to shake, like I would get so nervous, like if I had a like 205. Like I could barely, like, get it out of my mouth right, and a lot of times we'll turn it over to the assistant or receptionist to take care of that rate because they just say and they're so emotionally tied. But I think the more confidence you have in self, the more value that you see within you and you're not pricing based off of result, because sometimes people just aren't excited Like, they just are not excitable people.
Speaker 2:And I've done it before too, where someone turned around and I'm like you don't like it, like are you okay? They're like, no, it's great, I love it. And I'm like are you sure? And then you get to the desk and you took $50 off because we start to gauge it off of their reaction. But when you get more confident, more skilled, yes, we want to pay attention to the reaction because we have to be in tune like that, but we're not going to decrease our own value because Barbara's not having a great day.
Speaker 1:Stick to the script. Stick to the menu.
Speaker 2:Yes, value, because Barbara's not having a great day. Stick to the script. Stick to the menu yes, if it's $250, it's $250, whether she's happy or she's sad. Now, if she's crying now, what right? That's different If you actually broke her hair off because you processed it for too long then that's a very different story.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes. Then you blame somebody else.
Speaker 2:We're running out of people to blame. Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you guys for joining us today. This was always a live enlivening Vibrant, vibrant, vibrant chat, as usual. But yeah, let's go. Thank you Be bold, be brave, be you.
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