Hair Hero
Welcome to "Hair Hero," the ultimate podcast for hairstylists seeking inspiration, knowledge, and growth.
Join your host, Ryan Weeden, founder of the 8-figure brand Masters of Balayage, as he shares his journey from being flat broke to becoming massively successful, all through the power of hair.
Each week, Ryan engages in intimate conversations with industry leaders, icons, and trendsetters, uncovering their secrets to success and sharing actionable insights.
Tune in to elevate your craft, fuel your passion, and become the hero of your own hair journey. New episodes drop every week—don't miss out!
Hair Hero
Pushing Past the Haters (w/ Alfredo Lewis)
Have you ever wondered how personal evolution shapes professional success? Join me as I reconnect with my dear friend Alfredo Lewis to reminisce about our shared journey in the hair industry, from teaching classes to enjoying drinks together. Alfredo shares his excitement for his upcoming Hero event—a transformative experience for both attendees and speakers—and we reflect on how our drinking habits and routines have evolved over the years, delving into the deeper stories behind our social personas.
Navigating the cruel waters of adolescence and finding acceptance in the beauty industry is a tale of resilience. Alfredo and I explore our painful high school experiences, where humor and social strategies were our survival tools against bullying. Transitioning to cosmetology school offered us a lifeline of acceptance, and we discuss how perceptions of gender and sexuality have shifted over the decades. While progress has been made, challenges remain, but we remain hopeful for today's youth facing a more understanding environment.
From platform artist to social media influencer, Alfredo's journey highlights the power of empathy and community support. We discuss the rise of influencers, the impact of online negativity, and the importance of authenticity in content creation. Facing cancel culture and the emotional toll of hurtful comments, we emphasize the necessity of mental health support within the industry. As we gear up for the Hero event, the excitement is palpable—celebrating the profound connections and mutual inspiration drawn from our hairstyling community.
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Be Bold, be Brave, be You.
Thanks for you listening.
-Ryan
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Hey everybody, I am pumped to be here. I've got an old friend here, somebody that I've looked up to for many, many years, for many different reasons. We've taught classes together, we've had a lot of good times, we've shared plenty of tasty drinks together. It just goes back years now. Welcome, alfredo Lewis.
Speaker 2:Hey Ryan, how are you? I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, man. It's been a while. It's actually been a while since I've seen your face.
Speaker 2:I know we talked on the phone right, but I have not seen you. It's so good to see your face on video, but I'm looking forward to getting to see you in person in a few months.
Speaker 1:I know You're going to be a hero.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm super excited. Thank you for inviting me. I'm super, super stoked about the event.
Speaker 1:This will be your first hero experience.
Speaker 2:It's my first time going and to get to be a part of it just means a lot to me, so thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1:What's cool is it really is a life-changing experience for people that attend, but even for the people that are on stage, from people that have come back again and again to speak on stage for different reasons, because some people want more and more and more and we have to have them back, because it's just hard not to have them back. They say it's the best, most welcoming stage they've ever been on.
Speaker 1:And I know that they've been on a lot of stages before To say that it really really just capitalizes how special of an experience it is. So I'm super stoked that you get to be part of it and see what it's all about.
Speaker 2:I'm really, really looking forward to it. And you know what? You mentioned something in the intro about us doing classes together. I don't know if you know this or not, but you, masters of balayage was the first class when I did that class with you that I've ever done, like, my first beside like. Of course, I did platform stuff with, like when we first met like with brazilian and all that, but it was my first independent class was with you that's incredible to do that, so it's kind of a full circle moment, getting to teach at hero, yeah anyway it was you myself in a in a cell, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, I think it was called a balayage 360 or something. It was a balayage 360 and it was in texas. I Uh-huh, yeah, one in Texas and one in New York. Yeah, you're right, so it was two, but like the one in New York was I can't even remember the salon's name the.
Speaker 1:Fox and Jane.
Speaker 2:Yep, exactly A major salon Like they're so great yeah, fox and.
Speaker 1:Jane. Yeah, I'm really pulling the names out. I'm really my memory's actually on part. You're good. You're good.
Speaker 2:One glass of wine ginkgo gogobo, whatever it's called. Get my memory back right.
Speaker 1:Well, I only had one glass of wine last night and actually got some sleep, so, hey, really good day I am a little bit of an old lady, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean I, I don't I'm not sober, but I don't drink very much anymore. I used to drink quite a bit, yes, I used to love my cocktails. I'll drink sometimes, but not a lot. Like I was just at a big hair show the Orlando premiere and everybody's like come on, let's go to this. I'm like in bed by 10.30.
Speaker 1:10.30 is late, like I'm usually watching TV. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got older, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, it, exactly, it's been. Yeah, I got older, I guess. Well, it's funny, 10, 30 is is late for uh. So it's why if I, if I'm gonna start drinking wine which it's it's kind of hard to after a long day, it's just like I need something.
Speaker 2:I need a little bit of a wine is like wine is different though I love my wine, which is I love it I love a great red, or you know, like with dinner at home or if I'm out to dinner.
Speaker 1:But I'll have a good glass, jenny and I have gotten hooked on these like buttery chardonnays, and it's just been I don't know, it's just refreshing. But it's hard to stop. It's just like. It's like there's another bottle and there's another bottle and you know you're buying two bottles at a time. Every time you go to the store and they look at you probably looking at me like this guy comes in and buy this butter. Every time he comes in, that butter, chardonnay, I mean I love it.
Speaker 2:I'm a cheap date now, like two glasses of wine, and I'm super tipsy I'm with you, I'm with you, I'm with you, but I'm dude.
Speaker 1:It's so glad that you're here, um and yeah I want to just kind of dive into this whole new, uh era of this podcast that I'm doing here. Hair hero um, I'm really trying to get in touch with, like, who the artist is, who the creative is behind this social face. I don't know, something to make more relatable, something that's that's different than just like hey, why do you do hair and and and what's your favorite technique? And all these things where I want to get to know the person and I love and as I get older in life, I feel like there's a lot to be learned from other people and and I love diving deep into the soul of other creatives. So that's why we're here today. But you started doing hair at what? Age 17.
Speaker 2:Okay, was that that straight?
Speaker 1:was that straight from? I mean, that's beauty school.
Speaker 2:I went to beauty school at the age of 17 and I started in a trade school la trade tech in downtown la, and it was a part-time school, so I was working full-time and then school part-time and then I got really ants. I wanted to get into the salon. I'm super impatient probably still am, and I work on it better than I was then but when I was younger I was really impatient so I ended up going to school full-time and working full-time at night so that I could do the nine months. Back then it was rather than like it was going to be about two and a half years going to the trade school. So I graduated when I was like 18, a little over I had just turned 18.
Speaker 1:So why hair school? Was college ever in the cards or something that you ever thought about doing? You just wanted to start making money. Why cosmetology school?
Speaker 2:Well, I was one of those kids in school that the teachers always said that I was really, really smart.
Speaker 2:But I didn't apply myself, like you know or that I talked too much in class, I was too social, um, I can, you know, and that was that was what. Yeah, like that was more like later, because I was bullied a lot in my early years, like you know, like in eighth, like eighth grade to like 10th grade, I was bullied a lot and then I think I found humor and being super social and kind of being the class clown as a way to make friends and, you know, get people to like me, and so that really, I think is part of it. Like I was just very focused on that, you know, being accepted and you know, especially being gay, like growing up gay, like it was just I really like, why do you talk like that, why do you walk like that? And I wasn't comfortable in my own skin yet and all that. So it was a way for me to get through it, I guess you know, to get through those years.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I wanted to be an actor, because I was in the drama, you know, in school, and so I was in all the plays, like I had a lot of the leads in the plays and I wanted to be an actor. That was my original goal, but I went, started going to acting school. My parents would let me go to LA from Orange County, where I grew up, and go to acting school and I found that it was really tough, like it was so different than high school. You know, it was just method acting and I was just, you know, I in my mind. I just felt like I don't know, like it just seemed like really tough, like I wasn't going to make it. So I had read an article. There was this actress named Debbie Mazur I don't know if you know who she is, but at the time she had talked about how she did hair and makeup to get her big break and she did all the hair in movies and that's how she was able to network and eventually she transferred over from hair into acting. So when I read that article, it inspired me and I was like you know what? That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to hair school and I'm going to do hair for film and then I'm going to get my big break.
Speaker 2:And then, for some reason, I just really fell in love with the art of hairdressing in school. All of a sudden I just stopped, I started skipping my acting classes and you know I think it helped me, though, with my presentation skills, like I think all those years of acting like is why I'm able to speak. You know it definitely helped me, like you know, being on stage and all that stuff like looking back. I think having that foundation in acting it's a form of presentation was really beneficial to me. But I just completely forgot about acting and dove headfirst into school, especially when I did that transfer from part-time to full-time school. At that moment I just completely stopped the acting thing. Gotcha Went full-on into hair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talked about coming out early in your life. Is that why you were bullied? Because you were different?
Speaker 2:Well, no, I didn't come out until I was 18. Okay, but everyone else knew that's it.
Speaker 1:Cosmetology school brings it right out of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. No, no, no, no, I was definitely in the closet. I knew that I was different and that there was something, but it was more the kids. They can be really cruel, like, why do you walk that way, why do you talk that way? They would call me like derogatory names. And there was a time I remember and I never talked about. So you're already bringing it out, bringing out getting to know me, right.
Speaker 2:Um, I remember when I went from junior high to high school, my first day of school, all my friends that I had been through all of, like elementary school and junior high, they were like the older kids, like the seniors, they say that you're gay, so you can't hang out with us anymore. And it was my first day of school. Like I was so nervous, like you know, you know, going to high school, like big, think about, like when you go to high school and uh, I remember they're like, yeah, like I literally walk up my first second in school before first period, and my whole group of friends is standing there like, yeah, man, you can't stand with us, like you can't very, very mean girls, but like grown you know, like boy, like you know, but like you can't sit with us, like basically, like you can't sit with us at the table at lunch, and so I remember at first I would like eat in the library, like. So that was how I started high school was. Like was that way, and somehow I, you know, I have pretty good survival skills, somehow.
Speaker 2:That was really tough, obviously, but I was always had pretty girlfriends, but they were more like my besties, like I date all the pretty like girls, and then I think, through humor like and part like also like partying and all that stuff, like I was able to eventually kind of figure things out and and get back into you know that group of people. But I have to. If I'm being completely honest, I always had a little bit of resentment about it, like deep down inside, because they had kind of turned their backs on me. But then you're in school, so it's like am I going to just be alone for the rest of my time in?
Speaker 1:school.
Speaker 2:Or am I going to figure this out and you know, and find, find friends, and find people to hang out with. So, yeah, so I didn't come out completely until I was 18, but I was working at a clothing store another drama clothing store right.
Speaker 2:But, like I remember, like my coworkers, a lot of them were gay, but they didn't go to my school and they were like you know, honey, you're gay. And I was like am am I? I think I'm bi, you know, I was like in that, yeah, okay, and they're like no, like we think you're, you know, like you know, and now I think gender and sexuality.
Speaker 2:It's just it's talked about so differently than it was. Like back in the 80s like I'm aging myself was like late 80s, early 90s, um. So I found acceptance in beauty school and also from working in this like clothing store. I just kind of found, and then that's why I didn't go to college. You asked me about college. My parents really wanted me to go to college but I'm like no, I want to move to LA because I felt like I had such more community there and more people that were like me and that accepted me and then even in the hair industry at that time that was the first place I really felt safe, I really felt accepted and I could be.
Speaker 2:Myself was, uh, in beauty school, but then in the salon and it wasn't just all like there were. There was gay people in my school, but it was just everyone. There was a lot of amazing women in my beauty school, um, in fact, in in my beauty school. In fact, in my first school at LA Trade Tech, I was the only white student in my school. Most of it was these incredible black women. So I did learn a lot about like texture and stuff during that time and I found so much acceptance, like they could care less if I was gay or straight or you know. I was just really able to be myself in school. And then I transferred to a full-time school, um, and it was a similar situation where everybody was just so accepting and then when I got in the salon, that was even magnified even more. Everybody was just. I felt like I could really be myself. High school is scary man.
Speaker 1:I hope it's gotten better. I hope it's gotten better. I don't think so. I don't think it has. I hope it's gotten better. I hope it's gotten better. I don't think so. I don't think it has. I think it's actually gotten worse. I was really picked on, yeah.
Speaker 2:I went to a very how should I say? Conservative area high school in Orange County where it was just looking back on it, it was just different. So I don't know how it is now because it's been so long. But I have nieces now and they they go to school in a similar neighborhood and it does seem like my one of my nieces has like a gay best friend, you know, and like it's everybody in school knows, and they're like you know, they're in 10th grade, like when I went to school.
Speaker 1:That just wasn't a thing, right you weren't open about it, and yeah, you weren't. You were afraid to look inward at yourself. We have made progress.
Speaker 2:You know, we have made some progress, yeah yeah, new issues now different problems yes, exactly, exactly, for sure, for sure, yeah, well it's funny when you were talking about.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously it's not bullying's not funny, but um no I think, yeah, I had some bullying issues too when I was you know I I got bullied as well, for different reasons, but you were talking about you wanted to be an actor and I was like yeah.
Speaker 1:I did the acting thing for a bit too. I was in, I went to New York, I did acting. Later in college, I did some acting and then I went to New York to try to make a big name for myself, which, as you know, it's it's not not, it's definitely not guaranteed. You know, there's a lot of yeah, it's a lot about connections and obviously you have to be a good actor, but it I didn't see it in the cards for me. Uh, but one role that I did get, I actually went in for. I was sent in by.
Speaker 1:I had an agent at the time who sent me in for this role and I it was, um, it was a it was actually a coming out story about, really, this kid in high school who comes out and he's gay and he's being bullied and has all these trials and challenges through finding himself. And I was auditioning for this role, right, and I went in there and I was reading the script and and the guy that the, the director, he's like, he's like okay, you know, just heard me say the lines and everything. And he's like, okay, he's like, hey, I want to try something. I'm going to, I'm going to give you this other script here. Read this character now and I read it and he's like good job, good job.
Speaker 2:It was for the bully, I got it I got it.
Speaker 1:I got a call before I even left the building. It's like hey, we want you to play the role of the bully. And so here I am. I was in this like it was my only like feature length movie. I was only in a scene of it, but I play this, this high school bully.
Speaker 2:I go in for the victim and I come out being this this, this total jerk. Who? Who's just this total 80s type of bully? Who's?
Speaker 1:calling me gay and all these bad names. Yeah, yeah, I was like, oh great, it was funny because I was after. You know, not long after I was in the hair industry and I was working at the salon and one of my co-workers who was gay he, he's like brian. I just saw this movie last night and you were in it.
Speaker 1:You were so mean because I was playing this, this guy and I'm throwing this, this poor gay kid, up against this locker, I'm calling him names and I'm just like, yeah, sorry you know, but uh, it was a fun experience because I it was. It was even funnier because the guy that I was bullying was actually taller than me, so they had to put me on this, this, this 12 inch block, so I was tall, you know, so I looked tall, yeah, in the video, uh, but it was uh, it was, it was a trip. It was funny when people see that and they're just like, oh yeah, you play a good bully, like I was bullied by the best it's all acting, so it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you were taking personal experiences and reversing right, right, yeah, right but yeah it's.
Speaker 1:It's a crazy journey that we're on here. Um, one thing I've seen with you over the the last several years is you have just kind of skyrocketed on instagram. I know you've been putting a lot of videos out there. You found a lot of success with that. You've traveled all over the world doing these different classes uh, with philip right, philip wolf yeah a lot of times with philip sometimes separate.
Speaker 2:I mean, it just depends. But yeah, what has that been like?
Speaker 1:because I know that as you're gaining all these followers, you're doing all these videos uh, big transformational videos, I mean, as people get more and more followers. I know you've gotten some blowback on some of those Like how do you what was your initial take on? Like God, people are so mean. Like, why would you write that to the point of like, how do you deal with that over the course of more growth?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm excited. That's one of the things I'm excited about hero Cause I know I'm going to kind of talk a little bit about mental health and social media and I and I'm still working on like what I'm going to present, what I'm going to say, because I have so much to say. You want it to be meaningful and you have a certain amount of time. You know, I mean really you could do a whole summit, I think, on right, but, um, I mean, as far as the traveling and stuff like I I had, I was first a platform artist, like what a lot of people I don't think everyone gets because they see this persona You're talking about personas they see you on social media and they see your videos and your personality and what you showcase in 60 seconds, right, but they don't always know what it took you to get there or what the background is, and everybody has a different journey.
Speaker 2:But for me, I was a platform artist and head of education at Brazilian for, like you know, I worked there for 11 years and eight of those years I didn't even have a Facebook. I was like one of the last people to join Facebook and I had already had the opportunity to do platform work in every continent, which is so crazy. Like I had launched the brand in different countries and done big hair shows and you know there's that side of it in education. So I kind of already had my education legs, if you will. You know, pre-social media. And then when social media happened at first, as you know, when we met, I was behind the scenes. I was bringing in people because the world was changing and we were starting to you know, brands were starting to. Well, we were one of the first brands to really bring in, uh, influencers and artists and even put them on stage at the shows and have this like hybrid of educators, platform artists and what people at the time are calling influencers I guess they still do content creators there's been, you know.
Speaker 2:I think the word influencer sometimes can get a bad rap, but there's lots of different kinds. It's not a one-size-fits-all and I don't think any of them are bad. They all serve a purpose. There's just different kinds. Not every person that is an influencer can get up on stage and command a room or can present products or can consult brands or help product development. There's just different strokes for different folks, everybody. They say Different strokes for different folks, right?
Speaker 2:Like everybody has their strengths and everybody has their talents, you know. But I think for me you're right, yeah, the last few years, because I grew a lot like from 2016 to 2018, I grew quite a bit. But then I've had like periods of growth, like on Instagram, I did grow a lot in like 2018 to 2020. But then I went back into corporate life at L'Oreal and I got a VP role. So, like I have, I have like I've done corporate side, I've done salon full time, and then I have this other side of me, which is what people mostly probably know me for, which is social media, and back then I think I was like a half million followers on Instagram by then and that's a pretty substantial amount. It's a lot.
Speaker 2:I started to get a little bit of that negativity, what you would call trolls, but you never know, and I found it fascinating. It didn't affect me mentally. I think we all have different. Some of us have thicker skins than others. Some of us take things more, you know, to heart than others. I think at that time I really saw it for what it was, but it wasn't. There's like everybody has a fine line, a breaking point, I think, and some everybody's line is different. Does that make sense? Yeah, back then. You know, sometimes I would be like gosh, you know. But what I would find fascinating is I would kind of test it. I would put the same video out like three months later and change the caption a little bit. Same video, not even re-edit, and it would get nothing but love comments, like 300 comments saying that it's the best hair color they ever saw. But when I put it out three months before it was like 100 comments of like go back to beauty school you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:like just and so it just really taught me that you just don't know, and sometimes it's like they call it, like mob mentality, not not masters of balayage right um but more meaning, like sometimes if a few people come on and it it kind of is the gateway for that it opens the gateway and it's just really interesting to me when.
Speaker 2:But when somebody comes on and the majority of first people that see it, you get great feedback. That also starts to get all this I love it, it's beautiful, it's cool. So it I learned early on to like try not to take it so seriously and just realize like I'll never understand why people come on and spend time to say something negative like I I see things that I don't love all the time. I just keep scrolling.
Speaker 2:I don't like it, I don't like it. But I also don't go on and say I don't like this color, or I think it looks bad on her skin tone, or I would have went ash, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:To take that time out of your scroll? Yeah, it fascinates me Right. Why did you do that? Like, whatever it is like to take that time out of your?
Speaker 2:yeah it fast, it really makes me right when the last year is when I really grew, especially on tick tock. Like on tick tock, I grew a million followers in one year last year and it's it's from what you're talking about. It's from the transformations. Like we did some hair saves and it was really a fluke and the whole reason behind it.
Speaker 2:I was at an event with a friend of mine named alex pardo. He's amazing extension artist and we saw this girl named steph and her hair. She had diied her own hair and it just all broke off in pieces and everybody was making stitches and kind of like making fun of her. You know, like this is why you don't do your hair at home and this is what you get. You know, like, like almost shaming her. And so we were like you know what? We should help her, we should invite her out and save her hair. And it was like a huge risk because it could have went so bad. Her hair was so compromised and I was. It was, I was super scared. I didn't sleep at all the night before the transformation. We flew her out, but it was so successful and I think like we had no idea what to it could have blown up in our faces. We could have gotten her out, her hair could have not taken the color. Yeah, you know there's so many things that couldn't happen, but it was just this perfect chain of events that it was successful and, like the, it was multi-viral, like the most viral thing I've ever done and it after that we really thought it was a one-time thing, but what happened is this is the good side of social media and then I'll get to you. I'm sorry it's kind of like a long lead up to your answer, but I started getting tagged in all these videos like help her. Oh my god, look at this, you helped her, you can help her. And so it became a thing and we started doing a whole bunch of them.
Speaker 2:And you know, I started to. It wasn't at first, but after, like, I grew and I got. I really started to notice it when I got to a million followers on tiktok. That was when I really noticed it and I think it would be sometimes against the model, like really negative comments, and I'm very protective over my clients and models, so I would kind of worry more about them than about me. You know what I mean Of like. Are you okay? Do you want me to take this down? Like they're a human being and they're not in my position. They're not, you know, um. But then what's interesting to me is like, let's say, I, I have videos that have 10 000 comments like it'll be like 300 really awful, nasty comments, and then the rest are just so positive and like so uplifting.
Speaker 2:And the reason why we started to do these things is we wanted to see more kindness on social media. Like we thought let's change the narrative, let's help people. You know, like luckily, like I can't do this for everyone because we're doing it for free, like we're not charging them because obviously they're not in a position that they can pay for the correction. I was like let's just create these really inspiring stories on social media that hopefully make people smile, make people feel good. That was the goal. Maybe that inspires people. And we started to realize and I think, if I'm being honest, we all play a part in everything I think I maybe got a little too cocky about it because they all started going so well. It was really going well and I felt like, on social media, I've tried so many different things. Some things don't work, some do, and when something works, you know you've been at this a long time you kind of go with it.
Speaker 2:You're like, you're like okay everybody's liking this, so let's, let's keep it going. They seem to really be enjoying it and the growth was obviously. You know it's, it's not lying, it's telling you that it's connecting with people, you're connecting with hairdressers and with consumers. But then I had one bad one. I had one and I didn't want to get too into it because, honestly, to this day I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm not even I've kind of given up. I should say I've given up trying to figure it out. I'll never have the answer, but for whatever reason, what I thought happened in that appointment, I guess, isn't what happened. The client was unhappy and I really don't understand, but it was, for the first time, super overwhelming for me. You know, like the amount of negativity, trolling, hate towards myself was so intense and you know the client took to social media to say she didn't like it and that I could accept.
Speaker 1:That went viral too right.
Speaker 2:Well, no, no, when I talk about viral, I opened up my TikTok and, like there was hundreds and hundreds of videos of people stitching my video, critiquing my work, work, saying everything that I did wrong and and it was so intense even fellow hairdressers, non-hairdressers. And then I even had people say like oh yeah, he, you know, making comments on my character, people that I've never met before, like like, almost like they, they know me personally, you know, and and uh, and it was like a character assassination type thing. And this isn't. It's not like get out the violins and feel sorry for me or anything like that, it's just more like it was like a reality of like you know, when you put yourself in that position, people can say whatever they want, honestly, like they shouldn't like, but they can, you know, and they will. And if they have an opinion, you know, I guess it's their right if they want to get on and feel the need to make a video about it. You know so.
Speaker 2:But it was to such a degree that, for the first time, I went into a really deep state of depression. It was, it got away from me. I didn't know how to handle it. It was, it was. It was a few things. One was some of the things being said. It just weren't true. So if it was just I don't like the hair, I have to accept that. You know whether, whether I thought they did or not like, I have to accept that Like. And also, if somebody else does a hair and it looks beautiful, I would want to applaud them and say, oh my God, I'm so happy that this looks great, that's who I am. But when it's done in a way that's to attack me or to like like, belittle me, shame me, embarrass me, it's really hard to celebrate anything else going on. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Right, it was, it was to that level, it was to the level of you know, the comments were so and I just thought you know what I need to address it, talk about it once and move on. But then I I had even some big entities kind of take advantage of that too and talk about it. And I was really surprised by that, because it's people that I knew, people that I was once affiliated with, and to take like a cheap shot, like to kick me when I'm down. I had done a video saying my mental health is struggling right now. I said I'm not going to talk about it again, but this is my feelings about it, and I feel like I even said I'm not going to talk about it again, but this is my feelings about it and, and I feel like I even said, I feel like we must have failed the client. I need to look at what. How can we not have this happen again?
Speaker 2:We've had a lot of successful ones, and so that's probably what hurt me the most, because I think, like in our industry, there's a lot of amazing leaders out there and I think you can lead with love or you can lead with fear and intimidation and like, if you lead with love, people are going to gravitate towards you and want to be around you, because they actually want to be around you. Like you talk about. I'm so excited to do Hero because you talk about the hero and how people say it's the most welcoming stage that they've ever either witnessed or been on, and that's what our industry needs. So I'm really honored that you asked me to come. If you lead with fear, you know, or intimidation of people that don't agree with everything you say, people are only coming to you because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't. They're there because they feel like they have to be, not because they want to be, you know. And so I want to live in an industry where we're all uplifting and supporting each other and like, if we have a bad day or we fall down or we make a mistake, yeah, like, own it, but like I think we need to help each other pick ourselves up off the floor.
Speaker 2:So for me, it was the first time like I ended. We need to help each other pick ourselves up off the floor. So for me, it was the first time like I ended up going to therapy I'm still in it like it really affected me, like I didn't eat for a few days, I didn't sleep. I was really affected by it because it was so intense, like it wasn't just uh, like what I had experienced before. It was on such a level of uh and I realized like, oh, this is what 1.5 like I have 1.5 million followers. Like it's not just, like you forget sometimes. They forget that we're a person just like them, right, but we forget sometimes, like we, I put my work out there because I love it, I'm inspired by it, I don't want to share, but I forget sometimes just how many people have access to that? You know and are watching. It's a huge amount of people.
Speaker 1:People love this whole cancel culture thing of the bullies, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I thought why am I being canceled for doing someone's hair for free and they don't like it?
Speaker 1:You know that's in my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at the time I was like you know, you know, but through going to therapy, through what was the other side of it, was so many people in the industry, such as yourself, reached out to me, so many people that I hadn't spoken to in years, to check on me, to ask me if I was okay, to tell me come on, this is going to pass. We see, just don't past like we, you know, we, we see, like just don't. And and then even my dms was just lit up with hairstylists from all over the world writing me these beautiful letters about, like you know, and I think, sometimes like the mob, like the angry mob they were afraid to maybe comment and where people could see, but they were writing me and that really helped me get through it, you know, and and uh, just my family and stuff. And it really made me take a step back and like ask myself, like like a little internal, you know, um, like okay, like why did this happen? What can you do differently next time? Not do her hair again.
Speaker 1:You know all, all love.
Speaker 2:honestly, ryan, like I wish no ill will towards the client. Like I said, I don't understand why the reaction was that way and why it was all set up that way, but I don't need to know you know, they say other people's opinion, like whatever that saying is.
Speaker 2:It really was more for me to learn like social media is real but it's also not real. And I went to some hair shows after I was going to therapy still am and I went to my first hair show and it was only a few weeks after that happened and I was so afraid for the first time to go on stage. I was like shaking and you know me, I've been on stage, yeah, he said hundreds of times. I thought are they gonna boo me? Because in my mind, what I was seeing on social media was real, like it was everyone. It was like an angry, like all the hairdressers in the world were like you know, and and when I walked out, I got a standing ovation and it wasn't and I I don't think it was. I hadn't even said, said anything yet and I got really emotional. I had to like I got choked up. I had to like stop, because I think it was like support. You know, it's like they had all mostly seen it and they were like happy to see me and were like you know, hairdressers, like it reminded me like our community, like why I started this in the first place. I told you. It was the first place that I felt safe. It was the first place that I felt loved and accepted. And here I was in this moment where I felt like I did in high school again, and so through therapy, I realized, like it was all these unresolved feelings of being bullied, of being made fun of, of being shamed for who I am of. You know, and it's even happened to me with certain working relationships that I've had over the years where I've been, you know like, really treated terribly, you know, by by leadership people in leadership roles that I kind of got through, you know, was resilient, but I probably never dealt with the feelings that I had or the fear that I had, um, and so it just brought me back to like, actually our industry is one of the kindest, most beautiful, loving industries on the planet and we love and support each other, no matter what. For the most part, you know, people making those comments are hiding behind a computer screen. When I look, a lot of the times they're from accounts that don't have any followers, no pictures. I can't see who they are. You know, it's not real, like I mean, you know some of it is real, but what I'm saying is like the majority of us really love and support each other and I think you know it reminded me of like why I do this. It really grounded me in a way and also why, um, I came to this industry in the first place.
Speaker 2:I've done so many hair shows since then and the amount of people that come up to me and just say, like we love what you do. You inspire me. I went. I went to beauty school because you know I saw you on stage or I saw your videos, or you know you. You know you inspired me to do this or that. And you start to really put everything in perspective. Like we're not always going to be everyone's cup of tea. Like everything I do.
Speaker 2:I cannot expect every hairdresser out there to like or think you know I'm talented or not talented. I believe we're all talented in our own ways and we all have our own special gifts and we should celebrate each other for those. You know Right. But I think what really you know me I'm very blessed to get to do what I do. What I worry about is the young stylists coming up that you know. How do we help them not feel how I felt just a few months ago, six months ago. Right now I feel so good, so hopeful and so happy and blessed and all those things.
Speaker 2:But I was really in a dark place from that experience for like about a month. I'm not going to lie Like I wish I, you know, they would say never like no, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I was devastated, devastated by people I don't even know Like I let it get to me. And it's like, you know how do we help each other, be kinder to each other. But also how do we like I, you know, I want stylists coming into the industry to feel how I felt when I first started.
Speaker 2:I want them to feel welcome. I want them to feel like they can post, you know, their work without people coming on and like annihilating them, because sometimes I think one comment can destroy somebody, sometimes A certain like a new baby stylist coming out that's excited about something they did in their first salon client or their first model they did for their you know, have somebody come on and say that's ugly. It can destroy them, like literally, like their minds. You know, cause I taught I meet, I'm sure you do too. I meet a lot of people out there that they say I'm afraid to share my work because I somebody came on and said they didn't like it and it really hurt my feelings. You know, it's like how do we? How do we help each other? Just be a little bit kinder to each other.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, it's a. It's an important part of our industry that we don't really it's getting more focused now, this whole health and wellbeing, and I don't I uh, if you, you know, elizabeth Faye, uh, hair love I and I don't I uh, if you, you know.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Fay uh, hair love I do. I was just. I just did a um at the uh. Last at the premier Orlando show I was on a panel with her. Yeah, she's.
Speaker 1:She probably mentioned the vitality project I just want to shout that out real quick because she's bringing she's like it's joining up with pivot point to bring um mental health and overall wellbeing to the education curriculum in hair schools and salons. So I think I kind of want to ask you like where do you think you being very tapped into the industry you always have in a lot of different roles when do you think the industry is headed in the next five to 10 years?
Speaker 2:I know right, it's such a big, there's so much going on, right, like we've got AI. Ai is changing everything. It's changing everything. Um, we've got social media is like moving so fast and changing so rapidly. Um, there's things I'm hearing and a lot of some of it's hearsay right now. Right, but brands are gonna have trouble posting content, like if it's not original content, whereas before. So like, how do you have brands post our content? Like they're almost gonna have to hire, or even like a masters of balayage right like be able to repost is what you're saying?
Speaker 2:yeah, like it will be, and and so it's almost like your entities will have to start hiring and influencers, or or just for educators or artists to create original content that's strictly for their pages, which is something so different than we've ever seen before and then I go back to work, and then I think there's yeah, right, all of it.
Speaker 1:I think that there's there.
Speaker 2:There's going to be this um, it's already happening. This, you know, uh, new age like cause. Now you've got your Tik TOK, uh, hairdressers. And then you know the Instagram, which is a lot more curated and I think people want to see like that's why this podcast is going to. I think it's going to be so great.
Speaker 2:People really want to talk about real things, not that it's not real. I like all do respect and props because I love the imagery that I see on Instagram and that was I've obviously been really successful there. But I think why I've thrived on TikTok is I. I am vulnerable, like that one bad incident I just told you about it's because I put it out there. You know what I mean, and sometimes it's going to hit and sometimes it's going to miss, but I really put it out there and even if I make a mistake, a lot of times I'll do a video about it and say look at this, I pulled this out and my plan did not work and it was a disaster, and this is what I learned from the experience.
Speaker 2:I think some creators get a little afraid to show that vulnerable side. I think people really want to see us. They want to know who they're watching now. They want to know more about us. They do want us to show our vulnerabilities, not only our strengths. So I think that there's going to be this big resurgence and almost like a big shake up and I don't know where it's all going to land. But I think you're going to see a lot of new educators, slash creators start coming up that are presenting you know themselves in completely new and exciting ways, and I think you're going to see some of the you know incredible long educator influencers that have been for a long time like transforming themselves and reinventing themselves to be able to you know, we've seen this. You and I have been at this a long time. Yeah, when big changes happen, some people sort of fall off and others are able to figure it out, reinvent themselves and keep going and evolve, and then at that time, you see a lot of new faces come and then some of the other ones are able to port over. Yeah, um, but I think, like education is gonna change a lot too. Like it's if you can create content. I think educate you kind of almost have to be a triple threat. You have to be able to live in a lot of different spaces, I think in the next five to 10 years, and I think that we're going to start seeing an emergence of a lot of smaller brands.
Speaker 2:I think of makeup. Makeup's always been ahead of us in a lot of ways. It's the beauty space, right, right, that with we've already started to see it like. I think, right now I'm just saying dom because he just you know, dom, dom, yeah, I love dom, you know the brushes, right, right, and he's starting to come out and not just him. But the only reason I say him is because I was just right before we got on. I was on social media and I saw him pop up and but I'm, you know and we know, guy, if we go guy, he was like the og came out with with my identity, right, which is an amazing brand. Um, I think we're going to see more of it, but in like more independent ways I don't know what.
Speaker 2:do you think that's a?
Speaker 1:well, no, I think that's a great, great forecast. Uh, because I think, uh, the newer stylists that are gaining fame, they're starting to learn that if they want to maintain their influence, they need to find a way to monetize what they're doing so they can support their journey. Yes, because I know a lot of people back when everybody was getting big back in the day and they had these influencers that were hired on for these different shows, a lot of them never did anything with their platform. They might have had hundreds of thousands of followers, but unless they found a way to monetize their own personal journey once, they had nowhere to go and they had a lot of followers with nothing to support that growth, and then they had to kind of go back to the salon or go back to the way things were.
Speaker 2:A lot of them disappeared and I think I think it's a time where we need to figure out how do we make ourselves valuable.
Speaker 2:Like, if you want to work with brands, it can't just be posting like there. It's not like we're going to see a huge shift and brands are going to start. It's kind of scary for some of us, like, yeah, can you consult? Can you help that brand come out with products and innovations that maybe that can you help them with marketing, because maybe they need a voice of a hairdresser in that space? Are you able to, like, again, speak, educate, go to a summit for them and get up on stage and present the brand from them, from the voice of the hairdresser? Like you've got to really start thinking outside the box of how you can show your value to brands, outside of what you're talking about Just having a big following and a page. Like, we're really going to have to start transforming ourselves and getting a lot more involved if we want to make it in that space and be involved in the way that we have been before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'm excited for you to see what we're doing with our company next year, because we're completely redesigning the box as well.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:A little outside thinking, because I think there's just people want to see new things all the time. It's like what's the next on the scroll? It's going to stop my scroll. And if it's the same person teaching the same class every single year, they're going to say I've been there, I've done that, I've seen that. I don't need to go there for the fame of being around a certain person anymore. I actually want to learn something from somebody new that I can relate to.
Speaker 1:If somebody's been an influencer for 50 years, it's like how am I going to relate to that? There's not, there's not, unless just it's hard. So it's gotta be something new and attractive, especially in this overwhelming sea of hey, everybody's a coach, now, everybody's an educator, now, everybody's an influencer. Quote, unquote. Now, what are you going to do to stand out differently? How are you going to post pictures that are going to be different than every other post out there? You can't just have a pretty picture anymore and get a lot of likes. You got to be doing something very different and you got to be doing it a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think with me, with those hair saves, I just that's. I tapped into something like it's just not something you see every day. Most of us turn those clients. Great idea. Most of us turn those clients away. Right, be honest. Right the box, dive the henna. The person coming in.
Speaker 1:You just had one bad, bad day. Yeah, just one went belly up on you. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I've done like four since and they've all been successful. Right, yeah, I kept going. Everybody said please don't stop. That's amazing people out there that you know hair is such a huge part of our identity so I'd like to see more of it. I would support and love to see it. But once I get to like, let's say, I've done 30 of them, is it like, oh, there he is again.
Speaker 2:Like we're living in a time where, unfortunately, like one thing is not going to sustain. You have to constantly. Like what you said, we have to constantly be reinventing ourselves and if we're educating, you're absolutely right. Like I can't teach hair painting balayage over and over again for 10 years. Like there's a need for it right now, but next year is there like there's so many of us out there like what else can I bring to the table in my class that makes it unique or different? And you know, sometimes we all have similar ideas. So you're like, well, wait, so and so and so and so is already killing it at that. So that you know what can I do. Like we're constantly having you know, because we all love the industry.
Speaker 2:I would like most, I know you do, I know I do. You know we all want to contribute, we all want to make it better, we all want to help make other hairstylist lives better. Right, to me, that is the goal. Right, I always say if I am inspiring you, even if you don't like what you see, but it makes you go, you know what I hate, what he just did, but I know I'm going to do it this way.
Speaker 2:Right, I feel like I did my job. Like you know what I mean. Like that's, I'm like okay, I'm doing my job. I got you to think, I got you to say his way, I don't like it, I don't want to do that, I'm doing it that way. Or maybe they love it and they emulate it and they have great success. Like all of it. To me, all of it's a good thing, but you're absolutely right, it's going to be the ones who are the most agile. We have to learn how to be really agile and keep evolving with the times and realizing when maybe what we've been doing is starting to get a bit repetitive and we need to get out of our comfort zone and find what that next thing for us is.
Speaker 1:Right, because what worked five years ago isn't working today.
Speaker 2:And it's definitely not going to work next year goat isn't working today and it's definitely not going to work next year, nothing like with me. Over the years, I think I take, I keep parts of myself, you know right, and bring them into everything, but then I leave some things behind as I keep evolving in the industry, if that makes sense, and it's just a constant evolution yeah, well, in, uh, and it's been an incredible chat.
Speaker 1:In closing here, what would you you've mentioned as newer stylists in the industry, those that maybe aren't used to posting online but want to put themselves out there, but are, but are more overcome with fear and imposter syndrome and it's holding them back from their potential, from actually growing into who they want to be. What advice would you give that person?
Speaker 2:You know everything. I know it's tough, but not to be afraid, you know, not to be afraid to believe in themselves, to believe in their work, to realize and it's a tough realization I'm still learning from everything I told you. I just went through that. You know you have to have empathy for other people, as hard as it may be. Realize that what it takes for somebody to come on and down you rather than just scroll past what's going on with them internally that makes them feel that they need to do that to lift themselves up by pushing you down. And you know that it's not really you, it's them. And I hate to say that, but it is like and it's tough, though it's easier said than done, and it's something I'm really going to be working on how I present some of these thoughts with you in a few months.
Speaker 2:But when things like that happen, if it really affects you, there's nothing wrong with taking a break too, taking a step back for a minute, but just not letting it, you know, impede you and realizing that sometimes, when you get resistance like that, maybe it means that you're doing something right too. You know when you're ruffling feathers like that. You know when you're new. If you get one comment or two comments that get you down, like it's okay to feel your feelings, like we're human, feel them, but then really try to reverse it and ask yourself that question of like, how would I behave if I saw a photo and kind of take it, take it off yourself and and put it on them? And the hardest part is, rather than being angry at that, having a little bit of empathy of where they must be at, to feel the need to come at you. That way it's, you know, like, like, yeah, I really learned to have empathy for people like you cannot be a happy person if you're going around scrolling, try to knock other people down.
Speaker 2:I hate this. I hate that. You're a terrible educator. I would never go to. You know, uh, all those things that you see when you scroll and I I see every artist you, I realize like we all go through it. I see every artist from super hardcore education, like education driven artists posting about it, like it happens to all of us on that level. So it's kind of like how do you accept that that's just an unfortunate fact and how do you try to come from a place of gratitude and then look at all the good things I had to remind myself, even at my level of like look at all the things that are so amazing that I, because of this industry, that I get to experience every single day, and look at all of the love and support I have. Like let's live in that side of things and kind of, you know, how do we, you know, be true to ourselves and feel our feelings but then, like, put them away, if that makes sense Not stay in it.
Speaker 2:Not stay in that, not stay in it Like it's, like I think it's healthy to feel it and to feel you know, if somebody says something that's hurtful for you own it, don't not feel your feelings, but then how do you move past it and put it away and go back over to you know? Yeah, but look at all of these positive things.
Speaker 1:And it's going to hurt. But I think it's important that we do have a way to vent. We do have we have do people have we can talk to, we can tell them about it, so we don't hold it inside. They can say like dude, don't listen to this person. You know we all need at least one person people reach out to me and have all those conversations I had.
Speaker 2:It saved my life, Like it really really helped me a lot. You know, yeah, and it's easier said than done it takes practice. You know they say any habit takes 21 days, positive or negative. I don't know if you've ever heard that statistic, but I think if you practice, it takes practice and that's something I definitely want to talk about. Like you know, the first time it may be tougher to move past it the second time, but if you keep practicing that of like having a little bit of empathy, like really feeling it moving, like it'll start to become like riding a bike and it will be a lot easier to deal with Because, at the end of the day, social media is a necessity in our business.
Speaker 2:Now it's not. There was a time when I think you had a choice. I don't think there is a choice. It's if you're a hairdresser out there and you want your work and you want to have your business, I truly believe that you have to figure out social media for yourself. It doesn't mean you have to post every single day, but you need to figure out what works for you and your business model. How do you promote yourself about what works for you and your business model. How do you promote yourself Right and how do you? You know how do you connect with your audience, whether it's 500 people or 500,000 people. You know how what's going to work for you and kind of finding your rhythm. And then part of that is the mental health aspect of it. You know how do you deal with those tough times that are going to come up. And it wasn't, you know. I think I'll leave you with this.
Speaker 2:I think with me people related to it, and the reason I got so many hairdressers coming up to me at shows and wanting to talk to me about it is it wasn't about cause, you're right, I can be a bit unrelatable. 1.5 million followers on TikTok is a little unrelatable to some, you know. But what they? It didn't matter. They said you know, I haven't had somebody have a cause and effect of hundreds of videos being made about my work, but I've had a client that I thought loved her hair write a terrible review about me on Yelp or call my salon owner and say things that were just completely I had no idea and I lost my job, let's say, at that salon, like so many people came up and told me stories that they related to it on a different level because it was like they said, I had the same situation, it's just that there weren't hundreds of thousands of people weighing in on it and and so they were able to relate to it.
Speaker 2:And I think think we've all, we've all been through that, we've all had. You know, I've been through it, just not at that social media level. We all, even even after 30 years in the industry, I have clients. Of course it happens to it's, that's a very real thing. That happens to us as stylists. But it's it's. You know, we all hope the stylist or the stylist or the stylist, the client, will call us and say, hey, I got home and I don't like my hair, Can you fix it Right? Right, but not everybody does that. Some will take to Yelp or you know other forums, right, and so I think I think that social media in some ways emulates what's happening in the salon. You know what I mean? Like we have to look at it bigger than just what's happening on on someone's page. It's sort of like a mirror of the industry and what's happening in our everyday lives behind the chair, right right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I know this conversation is going to touch a lot of people. It's going to reach a lot of people and I cannot wait to see you on stage at hero. It's gonna you're gonna change lives I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2:Well, you, you're already changing. You're changing lives all the time and I'm so happy to know you and I've been your friend for all these years and I just really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come out. This is going to be something totally different for me that I've never really presented or talked about, but I love you know we talked about comfort zones I this is going to. You know, I think I'm really looking forward to connecting with the stylist, but I think I'll get almost just as much, if not more, out of it and meeting everybody as everyone else does. Sometimes I think people don't realize that sometimes I know you understand that Meeting the stylist and stuff it's like my favorite part of what I get to do.
Speaker 1:To twinkle in their eye and the big. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.
Speaker 2:So I hope I really can't wait to meet everybody.
Speaker 1:Well, you're, you're the true hair hero. And uh, this is, I'm just this is awesome, man so uh talk to you soon.
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