Hair Hero
Welcome to "Hair Hero," the ultimate podcast for hairstylists seeking inspiration, knowledge, and growth.
Join your host, Ryan Weeden, founder of the 8-figure brand Masters of Balayage, as he shares his journey from being flat broke to becoming massively successful, all through the power of hair.
Each week, Ryan engages in intimate conversations with industry leaders, icons, and trendsetters, uncovering their secrets to success and sharing actionable insights.
Tune in to elevate your craft, fuel your passion, and become the hero of your own hair journey. New episodes drop every week—don't miss out!
Hair Hero
Why Most Hairstylists Fail at Pricing—And How To Fix It (Nina Tuilo)
Have you ever wondered why hairstylists and salon owners often struggle with confidence and financial success? Join us as we welcome back the ever-inspiring Nina Tulio, who passionately empowers beauty industry professionals to make and keep more money while building their self-worth. We kick things off with light-hearted memories and a laughable technical mishap, setting the stage for a conversation filled with practical advice and heartfelt moments. Nina sheds light on why societal undervaluation and the habit of prioritizing clients over oneself can lead to confidence issues in the beauty industry and how the COVID-19 pandemic has reshaped perspectives on self-worth and business resilience.
We dive deep into the importance of self-belief, setting boundaries, and establishing strong business standards. Avoiding burnout and people-pleasing is crucial, and Nina shares invaluable tips on how to prevent clients from dictating terms, ensuring you set the tone and values for your business. Personal stories of overcoming significant financial hardships underline the necessity of being structured and intentional with business practices. From knowing your numbers to setting clear financial targets, Nina's insights are both motivating and practical for those navigating the financial landscape of salon ownership.
The episode also tackles the complexities of pricing models in the hair and beauty industry. Should you go with a la carte, package, or hourly pricing structures? Nina and I weigh the pros and cons, emphasizing the benefits of clear client communication and effective marketing strategies. We also discuss managing anxiety, the potential pitfalls of AI technology, and the importance of mental health in leadership. As we gear up for an exciting annual event, we celebrate the anticipation, connection, and invaluable lessons that lie ahead. Tune in for an episode packed with actionable advice, genuine connections, and a strong sense of community.
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Thanks for you listening.
-Ryan
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Hey, what's up everybody? I've got some more energy than I had earlier, when our first take did not go well, trying a new podcast platform here. It's called Riverside. It's very simple. It's almost too simple. I just haven't used it before and Nina and I started recording something and realized five minutes into it that we were not actually recording. We were just taking it for a test drive and it was a fail. So here we are again and I want to welcome back Nina Tulio. You are one of my favorite people. You're just so real. You always share your soul. You have a heart to give, and I love that about you and I'm so excited to see you back on the hero stage and shoot more stuff with you. And whenever you and I talk, it's always a very energizing, deep, sometimes tearful, but hopeful conversation. So welcome to Hair Hero, welcome back.
Speaker 2:Thank you, listen, you can't make me cry already. We've only been here for three seconds. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I know I love our conversations and I love hanging because it's just fun and goofy and all the things, but there is such a level of depth that we go into because you know we share a lot of similarities and you know we're very open in talking about them. So I'm excited to be here. It's nice to be back.
Speaker 1:Thanks, I was just. I was just thinking about that video I found when I was looking through old footage of stuff and you're working on this intro thing and we're doing these wild turnaround faces and you just did this weird thing where you came up, you know pulling out your full quirk and, believe me, I've got plenty of those things but it was just one of those gems that I found and I sent it to you. You just started dying, laughing like what the heck was I doing?
Speaker 2:I forgot all about that.
Speaker 1:I look like the girl from the ring I was waiting for the screen to like turn all the shh.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that was actually for hero.
Speaker 1:We did that for a hero, for your entrance video right.
Speaker 2:Share that for the well. You know there's still time. I think we redo that. You're going to be back. That's funny.
Speaker 1:Well, going off of our non-recorded conversation five minutes ago, I asked how you like to describe yourself because you do so many things. You're a speaker on stage, you teach classes, you are an online course creator, a mentor and just an all-around damn good human being. Thank you, course creator, a mentor and just an all-around damn good human being.
Speaker 2:So how would you Thank you If somebody.
Speaker 1:You were stuck in an elevator with them for I don't know 30 seconds, 60 seconds or whatever. How do you describe yourself? What do you do? Who are you?
Speaker 2:So I like to make it short and sweet. I help hairstylists and salon owners make more money, keep more money and build confidence, and that's really the overall goal, and it could be through many of my different channels and vehicles. But I really want to just make change in our industry and make an impact and really allow salon owners and hairstylists to feel that they are of value. And so I, you know, I just I'm I'm so passionate about what I do if you haven't gathered that by now but I just love people and I love our industry and I want to just keep it moving forward, you know, in the right direction.
Speaker 1:I love that. Why do you think our industry suffers so badly from a lack of confidence? And do you think it's just our industry or do other industries, are they impacted as well? I feel like it's always this common thread in what we talk about with this. You're just a hairstylist, or people have never really gave us much worth as a profession, but what is your take on that?
Speaker 2:Well, I agree with that. I think, listen, I think other professions that are service-based also kind of fall in line with that as well. I don't think that we're exclusive to certain things, but I do feel like, because we serve at such a deeper level that there's so much emphasis put on taking care of the client, that we oftentimes put ourselves on the back burner and a lot of times, because we're leading with serving and leading with wanting to please and take care of people, that we forget that we also matter too. And so I think, because not only are we serving, we're helping people, we're making them feel more confident, looking beautiful, feeling beautiful, all of those things that sometimes we just kind of end up in the background. And I think, although this has been going on for years I mean, we've been having these conversations for 100 years, right, but something did happen when COVID hit, and as horrible as COVID was, there was a lot of good that came from that, and I really feel like people started to sit within themselves because we had to, we couldn't go anywhere, and we started to really look at what was important and we started to prioritize self and I think from there we started to gain a little bit more traction and a little bit more confidence as we were showing up and running our businesses, and so I think we've done a really great job.
Speaker 2:I just feel like we still have to continue. We have to be consistent, and I always say this because there's a lot of chatter and I'm sure you see all of this on Instagram too but there's always talk of trying to convince clients on why we have to charge so much and why we spend this much on product. We shouldn't be convincing them. The issue that I see is that we're trying to convince ourselves. Once we believe in ourselves and once we see our own value, we don't have to convince anybody else, and so everything that we have to do or want to accomplish always starts within us, and then the convincing will turn into conveying and trying to convince people. Now we're just trying to convey a message as to why we are important and why we're valuable.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, I think I love that the convincing. It's more about conveying. Once you have that confidence, I think one of the challenges, too, is we're people pleasers by nature. We want to make the person in our chair extremely happy and a lot of times, in order to do that, we feel like we need to give away our boundaries and be everything to everybody, and we have nothing to hide behind. I mean, we try to hide behind the chair sometimes or the mirror, but we're still having this interaction with another human being that we do not want to disappoint.
Speaker 1:Sure, and I think this this, this way that we try to avoid confrontation with them. I mean, nobody likes confrontation. I mean, maybe some jerky salespeople love it. They love the people that you see on on newscasters battling back and forth. They love that shit. But we don't want to have to do that every day in the salon going back and forth. We want to. We want to just be there to be creative and give a service and take home a fair wage for what we do.
Speaker 1:And I think maybe that's why we are stuck with this, where we are just trying to avoid unease and confrontation. We don't have a business to hide behind or go talk to the front desk. I guess at certain salons you can have that where you just say yeah and they'll take care of payment up front. That's great when you can divert that and then it takes the pressure off of yourself. But if you are working for yourself, if you're a booth renter, a salon owner, that's when you really have to. To me, for 600 years, since beauty school, and you can only afford a $10 haircut or we have to have that type of a blanket across our entire business. And once we can stand behind that, then we are conveying with confidence that this is the way things are, and you say it with a smile.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and I think you know, even to take it a step further when we think about boundaries and you keep saying the word stand what comes to my mind is standards, and when we think about boundaries, it's almost like glorified standards. Right, we have to set the tone first, and when we think about and I talked about this last year at Hero, about, you know, identifying the standard in your business and the core values of your business, we should have personal core values and we should have business core values, and a lot of times they align, they, they run side by side. But if we don't set the standard in our own business, the client is going to set it for you and they're always going to set it in a way that suits them and not you. And that's why we get financially burned out and we get frustrated because we feel like we're losing control of the business. But really, what's happening is that we just haven't set the standard yet, we haven't set the tone.
Speaker 2:And when we set the tone, we want the client to rise to that standard and tone. We don't want them to set it and we meet them there, because that's when things start to go upside down, and I think I have been seeing a lot more stylists and owners really setting the standard and living their truth in their own core values and saying you know what? This is where I'm at and I'd love for you to meet me here, and if you can't, then I can refer you to someone that maybe aligns better with you. I've seen that happening a lot more and it makes my heart so happy.
Speaker 1:That's great. You're somebody that I look at and I see your posts and one of the first things that people will notice is how much you talk about the importance of knowing your numbers. And hey, if you want to save an extra $20 an hour or make an extra $50 a day or make six figures or take home thousands of extra dollars by employing these different practices, you are very structured with your numbers. A moment in your life where you got to a point where it wasn't going in your favor and you said screw this, I am going to make this a priority in my life and something that really sparked that passion.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, I'm so structured now because I had such hurt and pain in my own salon business that I do not want anyone to ever feel that or go through that. So that's part of the passion and the drive and why I'm just so into and really I don't want to say obsessed, but I guess kind of obsessed would be a good word.
Speaker 2:I'm obsessed Low-key obsessed with really talking about price per minute, price per hour, profit margins, rent percentages, all of those things, because I didn't know that by not knowing that and not paying attention to actually it wasn't even that I didn't pay attention to I avoided which a lot of us do, because we think if we don't pay attention to it and avoid it, that it's just going to go away. Well, it gets worse, and for me, it just got significantly worse when I was a salon owner and I just made horrible financial decisions because I was making decisions and running my business on fear and I ended up just getting in so much debt. I got $90,000 in debt. I had to sell my house to keep my business. It was my choice. I had to go in a debt consolidation program. That's what worked for me, and going through all of that was probably one of the worst and hardest times in my life. However, it taught me so much, and it actually is what allows me to show up as I do, because when you go through that and you feel like you're literally losing everything I mean creditors were calling my salon, threatening to take my furniture. It was bad, and I tell that story because I want people to understand that there's always a way out, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2:And it takes time. It takes a lot of work and a lot of commitment and a lot of you know I had to give up a lot of things to do that, but on the other side of that shit storm that I created, the first part is accountability owning it. You know, I had to look at myself and say I screwed up. Not even that I screw up, I effed up big time. It's on me, but I know that even though I screwed up, I still had opportunity to change it.
Speaker 2:And so I think accountability is one and then action is the other, like planned action, and for me it was just getting out there and hitting the pavement and getting myself aligned in my community and taking my team with me, and they were a big part of that. And my business did grow 20% to 30% year over year until I sold the business. That was about five years, but there is always light at the end of the tunnel. I think we have to be flexible sometimes in our approach and I always believe that the goal for me was always to own a successful salon, and even though I was failing the first five years, I never changed the goal, but I sure as hell had to change my approach, and so don't give up when things aren't working in your timeline or maybe in your favor. Sometimes we just need to change the approach and the way that we're doing things, but we always keep the goal the same, and if we're consistent in our action, the reward it can absolutely pay off.
Speaker 1:If you're talking to somebody now and they're in the weeds, they're in their business, they're busy, they're taking clients, whether or not their schedule is full or not, but let's just say they don't have a're in their business. They're busy, they're taking clients, whether or not their schedule is full or not, but let's just say they don't have a grasp on their business. They don't really know their numbers. They got their pricing either from the salon that they work at or they just talk to friends. And what are you charging? Okay, I'll charge that too. What would you tell them to? Okay, like, it's great that you have you've started, you have clients, you're doing the work, but moving forward, how do you not only set goals but kind of dumb it down? What are some basic numbers to get a hold of and start to monitor?
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing is well, you always have to have a good CPA in your back pocket. That's incredibly important. Number one, then I would say let's just talk about a simple profit and loss statement, right, because that always tells us what's going on in our business. And a profit and loss statement basically is just income coming in, so all of the revenue coming in, all of your expenses going out, and then net profit, so what's left. But then keep in mind we have to pay tax on that money. So your net profit after you pay your taxes on that net profit, then we have net income.
Speaker 2:But if you can just start at pulling a profit and loss statement and looking at what's coming in in revenue in different categories, we have a retail revenue. If you have a boutique, then you have boutique revenue. If you have, obviously, service dollars, that's separate revenue. We have to break it out so we know where the money is coming from. And then we have to know where we're spending our money. And a lot of times a lot of businesses close because there's cash flow issues and the cash flow is just money management in and out of the business.
Speaker 2:I really go into and I have calculators that showcase, okay, your rent percentage as a commissioned salon owner should be no more than 8% of your revenue. We could stretch it to 10% if we have to Payroll for my commissioned salon owners has to be less than 50% of your revenue. And so I break it down a lot deeper so people understand what their categories and percentages are. But just to start it simple know how much money is coming in, where it's coming from, know how much you're spending in all of your expenses going out of the business, and then know what your net profit is. And then, of course, you have to make sure you're putting money aside for your taxes. But I think if there's one thing I would like to share money aside for your taxes, but I think if there's one thing I would like to share I think you have to know what your target is.
Speaker 2:So what is a target? Profit for commissioned salon owners and independent artists, and I'll share that, because if we don't know what the target is, what are we shooting toward? So for commissioned salon owners and what I coach and teach to is to work toward a 20% profit. Now, the average commissioned salon owner in the United States makes about eight, eight and a half percent profit. For my independent artist. We're shooting for at least a 50% profit. Higher is better, obviously, but we're shooting for that. So, now that you kind of have an idea on what you're shooting for, then you can look at your net profit and divide it by your total sales and see where you're at in terms of your net profit. Or you can go at your net profit and divide it by your total sales and see where you're at in terms of your net profit. Or you can go on my website and do my calculators, because they're totally free and you should do that because it'll show you what your net profit is. But that's a good place to start.
Speaker 1:Wow, so 8%? Huh, that's what most profit margin is for salon owners.
Speaker 2:Commissioned salon owners 8.5%. And people you know I post this and people say why would anyone want to be a salon owner?
Speaker 1:I know that sounds about right, though when I owned a salon it was you think you're going to have all this success and you're going to make all this money. And even if you do make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year with your salon, or even millions, it's like how much of that is going into the payroll? How much is that going back into the salon there's?
Speaker 1:always something you got to fix. There's licenses you got to pay for. There's products you got to pay for. You really have to get into salon ownership because you are kind of obsessed with it, that you're passionate about it and you have to be. You can't just have one toe in, one foot in. It's like you've got to be fully invested in that experience, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And you have to want to serve, you have to want to lead people and that why has to be bigger than the amount of money that you're going to make. And listen, I am always rooted like we're not in business to make no money, like no one ever opened up a business and said, well, shit, I hope I don't make any money this year. That's kind of ingrained in us in this business to be nervous about saying I want to make more money and make more profit. It's okay to make a profit and you can still serve at the same time. I think we're learning that we can continue to do that. But we are in business and businesses make money. It's scary out there, especially now we're going through, I think, a little bit of a turbulent time, and we have to keep our pulse on the numbers, because the numbers always tell the story of your business.
Speaker 1:And the more money that we make it's not all going to fancy houses and cars, I mean the more money if we really have that heart to serve. Sure, we can treat ourselves, but the more money that we make, the more we can invest into our customer and client experience right, the more we can put back in, the more people we can reach and touch and impact and give money away to charity, to causes that we believe in. You can't do that if you're not profitable. I mean we, like you said, a lot of stylists and creatives will say like, oh, I just do it. I would do it anyway because I just love it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, until you can't afford to eat, until your family can't afford to eat, you don't want to be scraping by God forbid, a rainy day comes and you don't have anything saved up and and it's just not a good place or situation to be in. So it is important that we do be okay with the idea that it is that we are allowed to make money, and in this industry we can make a lot of money.
Speaker 1:What we do with that money is up to us. We can do it for good or we can go buy it on fancy cars and watches and handbags. Whatever it's up to you. But making money is absolutely essential, especially to the ever-rising costs of living. It is expensive to live right now. Going to the grocery store, I've never seen prices like that in all my life. I mean anywhere. When it comes to different pricing models, there's always people are torn. Do I charge? Do I itemize things? Do I package price? Do I just charge hourly? You're in the trenches a lot with salon owners, with stylists, a lot more than I am. What do you see as being the most? One, the most profitable way to go and, two, the most stress reduced way of pricing?
Speaker 2:Well, so this is my lane right Pricing and profit.
Speaker 2:And the majority of people who are not making enough money and not making enough profit. It really does stem a lot from pricing, because if we are undercharging, then we're not making the volume and revenue that we want, and if we're not making the money that we want, we're probably not making the profit that we want. And then you compound that with overspending, now we're like in the negative right, in a deficit. When it comes to. First, I want to say this there is no one size fits all when it comes to pricing structures, and although I coach and teach to the package pricing model in my courses and coaching, we lay everything out a la carte and then we know each and every single like based on target price per minute, price per hour, and then baseline price per minute, price per hour, based on everybody's individual data and facts. So then it gives us something to work on, right. So we do a la carte and then package pricing, but I feel like do I lean more toward package? Sure, that's what I coach and teach to Do. I think hourly has its place, absolutely it has its place, and I know several stylists that use hourly pricing and they love it and it works for them. There's always pros and cons to each one, and I actually have a blog that I wrote on this about the pros and cons of pricing models, because and even in my own podcast, because people ask me all the time I think if you're using a la carte, it can be a little difficult if you're the person who's giving shit away for free, if you're not used to charging for glosses and treatments and all of those things, you could be losing money there. So that could be a con In package pricing things. You could be losing money there, so that could be a con In package pricing. If you don't understand how much product is inclusive with your price, your base price, and we don't understand cost of product, then you could be giving product away. So that could be a con with that.
Speaker 2:And in hourly, I think a lot of times you can cap your income because if you are an efficient stylist, what you could charge 300 for, maybe you're only charging 150 an hour. I'm not saying only, I'm just saying in comparative. So maybe you're shorting yourself that way and you're capping your income because if you want to make more revenue as an hourly priced stylist, you either have to increase your hourly rate or you have to work more hours and then sometimes you're tethered to the clock with an hourly pricing model. But I feel like we can use a combination of all of them. I have people who use package pricing, but then for their corrections and vivids and global we do hourly, but we make sure that we include the product cost with that, and then we're still charging for product costs on top of it because we only include a certain amount of product, and so I think there's always pros and cons.
Speaker 2:My thing is is, when you're choosing a pricing model, don't choose a pricing model because it's trending on Instagram and TikTok. Choose a pricing model because you sat down and you're aligned within your own core values and mission in your business and you feel good about it. And it feels good when you're talking to the client and it overall, long-term, is going to impact your business positively. So I think that there are many different ways we can go about it, but again, there's a lot of thought process behind how we're going to structure it. I think the most popular these days, I would say, is probably packaging. I don't see as much a la carte because we've been streamlining menus a lot lately and then close second would be hourly pricing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have to say that I mostly agree with you. The a la carte is tough because, I's. I feel like it's when you you go to cvs, you buy a bunch of stuff and you get this receipt that's as long as your arm right every time.
Speaker 1:But what it does is it lists every grocery store same thing, lists everything right. What that does especially if we're doing that in our services is that it actually takes the power away from us and puts it into the power of the customer because they can use that and say like oh no, I don't want the bond builder next time or I don't want the toning gloss, I don't want the root shadow, but I want the same thing that you did.
Speaker 1:And then we're kind of in this sticky situation where we have to explain to them that it's absolutely necessary, even though we can't actually see the bond builder working in the hair. We're just trusting that it does. Of course, they don't know that. They just think like, well, I've never had one before or that I know about, so I don't want to, I don't need it. My hair is very healthy and I feel like that's.
Speaker 1:I'm glad a lot of people are moving away from that Package pricing. I think it's fantastic because it's very marketable, especially if you have fun with it too. Sure, if you're going to, let's say, a day spa and you're looking at a menu for, let's say, an hour and a half, a 60-minute massage, 90-minute massage oh, this is the hibiscus, hot stone massage with soft whispers in your ear, that's extra and that's it. But you can. You can really you can say like this is the blonde elegance. Um, I don't know package or something. You can name them, you can market them. Um, this is the sassy pants. You get a free magazine with it too, I think.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing You're bringing up, the marketing piece which. I think is so important, you know. That's why I said it has to align with you because with hourly pricing.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's a heavy marketing aspect to it that sometimes we get lost in, because the client has to understand and a lot of times they don't understand other than looking at their watch, right, they just know like, hey, if I'm not going to be in here for two hours, are you going to charge me for two?
Speaker 2:Like what does that look like? It could cause a lot of stress, but you're right, you know you can with package pricing too, and I want to make sure that I get this point across. We package everything together, but let's just say Susie doesn't need a gloss, we take it out and we take it off the price. But it's already there to start with. So you're already kind of set up to win. And if we have to remove it because she doesn't need it, because we're not in the business of selling things people don't need, then we can take it out and adjust the price. It's just full transparency with pricing I think is important, especially with your new clients or people who have been with you a while that are going to do a full transformation. We have to make sure that the clients understand fully what they're getting into before they have sticker shock at the desk, which is absolutely what we don't want to do and that happened to me and it was a nightmare, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then I guess the last one was the price per hour, the hourly pricing. And it's funny because I used to always say that, you know, it just doesn't make sense because you're, like you said, you might be selling yourself short, et cetera, with if you don't choose the right hourly, and then you're just stuck, you're capping yourself in a way. Sure, but I'd never actually had done it before. And recently, it was funny I got a DM from someone. She's like hey, ryan, I knew I recognized the name in the photo. And she's like hey, ryan, this is so.
Speaker 1:And so you did my hair 20 years, or was like 20 years ago, or it's like you know, one of my first clients ever, and wow, it was. She's like hey, I'm going to be in San Diego. I've been following you for years and years and was just wondering if you would be interested in if you still take clients. I don't know if you do or not, but if you do, I would love to come and see you. And I was just thinking at first.
Speaker 1:I was thinking I haven't done clients regularly in quite a long time. I haven't been behind the chair, you know several years, and but I was like, okay, well, you know what, what is keeping me from this and of taking a client or here and there, and and I could probably, and I could probably grow from this experience? And I was just thinking, well, okay, what pricing model should I do so that I don't do this, and what would be worth my time to do this? Because right now we are in a situation where we have other parts of our business moving, that kind of make money while we sleep, in a way, with our online courses, and we have other money-making, income-producing activities, and is it worth my time to do this? How am I going to benefit? So I was just thinking what is it going to take? Let me just put a number out there.
Speaker 1:And I was like I want to try this hourly thing and just say, hey, I'm going to just put a number out there and say, like, what would be worth it? Would it be $100 an hour be worth it? And I'm like no, I'm like would $150? I'm like no, and I don't mean that to be like selfish, it's just I can do other things. I could send out an email with an offer and make money that could be considerably more and better use of my time. And then I'm just like you know, I would do it for 200 an hour, you know, and she's seen, she's cool, she's, she's an easy client, from what I remember.
Speaker 1:So I put in this text and I said, uh, yes, I go on. And uh, you know, I only take a handful of clients right now. And and and I, I charged, charged to keep it simple, just a flat 200 an hour rate. She got back to me almost instantly. She's like sounds great to me, you know, I trust you. And I was like, wow, all right, cool. So then I, she, came into our workspace here, it's just, you know, it's just me and her and had this. Really, I love this. My new office now. And you've been here, right, you've been to this new one, right.
Speaker 2:No, but I will be soon. Oh gosh, I haven't been to this, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:It's just a total incredible workspace and shooting area and it's just it's quiet and it's awesome. But she was in here and we have this little area set up to obviously to do hair Cause. This is what we record and I got to tell you my stress level was at an all time low because I'm just like this is incredible, because I can just take my time.
Speaker 1:And I didn't know that I didn't have any clients that were rushing to come in anyway, but there was just something so nice about just like making sure every foil was perfect. I wasn't going slow on purpose. I was just having that meaningful conversation, giving her focus on the experience, as opposed to like rushing through it. If it was a package, and I'm like the faster I get through this, the faster that $350 can be in my pocket. You know, I just I was making sure that I wasn't tweaking my body in odd ways. I was really taking care of myself, taking care of her and making sure that I was doing the absolute best possible and at the end of the day, when she left, she was super stoked and I was happy and it was a good little session there, you know.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking well, if I really wanted to not cap myself doing hourly, then I could, you know, find a way to get clients that I really knew what they wanted and how to handle them, and double book them in a way where they wouldn't overlap, they wouldn't be hijacking each other's time, and get an assistant to help out with that. And then suddenly I've doubled my hourly instead of 200 an hour, making 400 an hour, I'm like. So there are ways to do it, but the stress level just being able to take my time was a dream.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, yeah, I mean, and I think and that's what I hear people because it's like part of the pros is like it's easy. You know it's easy for you as a hairstylist and there is a lot of you don't have to think about what am I using, what kind of treatments, how do I calculate that? It's like simple and easy. But I think you had that conversation with your client ahead of time.
Speaker 2:Now, what happens when you have a client that is really just paying attention to the time? So she may have been chill and laid back and cool, right, well, if I'm here for three hours, no problem, right? Not everybody works like that. So if you do get someone who is a little bit more budget stringent, then they're going to start looking at the time. Well, is it going to be two hours? What happens if it's two and a half? And then that's where things could get a little bit tricky when you're working like that. But also, like you said, you like to take your time. But what happens if a hairstylist is efficient and they're, instead of doing a hundred foils, they do 50 foils max? Efficient and they're, instead of doing a hundred foils, they do 50 foils max, right, and now you're working on efficient placement patterns, you're using efficient products and now you're done in an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. So these are some of the things that we have to think about. And again, do you like I, live for it If it works for you and it fills your heart and soul. But those are some of the things we have to think about, because not everyone is going to respond to the way that your client did. We have to sell. The marketing piece has to be there so they understand what it looks like and what's included. I think, again, it's always weighing out the pros and cons and what feels good for you and your business.
Speaker 1:Plus, like you were saying too, as we get better with our skills, we are going to get faster. Even when we're going and taking our time, we're still going to get better, more efficient with our purposeful placement and better haircuts and systematized strategy, and we should charge more for that.
Speaker 2:Right, because you're giving the gift of time. So now you're like wait a minute, I just took all these classes, I've done all these things, I'm getting faster, so now I'm making less. So those are some of the challenges that pop up with it, but again, there is an easefulness to it. I agree with you on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least now I'm happy that I understand what it feels like, and I'll still probably always have some kind of a hybrid model. Sure, yep, yeah, like the package so I could market it in a certain way, making sure that whatever that package price is incorporates what I want to make hourly. And then if I need to add on time because she's got extra long hair, extra thick hair, or product because I had to use more, because I had to go back in and do more stuff, then that's where the itemize come in and I still feel like that's the ultimate type of pricing model, the best parts of each.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you can maximize both of them for sure, and I still feel like that's the ultimate type of pricing model, the best parts of each.
Speaker 2:Maximize both of them for sure and make sure that your product cost is in line. That's the most important thing. That can be problematic because we don't want to. I know a lot of people who do hourly pricing plus product, so that way they ensure that they're not losing money on the product side. So again, there's so many ways that you could go about doing it. But hey, I'm glad you gave it a whirl.
Speaker 1:I'm done and I'm back out. Now you're done, that's it. No more doing, no more clients. How much do you use AI in your business?
Speaker 2:I use it sparingly you know, maybe for a blog to set a foundation, or when I'm working with my salon owners and we're creating actionable core value statements, we'll take some of their keywords and we'll plug it in and it helps with mission statements, things like that. Any of my captions you know those are all written from me. I just haven't gotten into that space yet. But yeah, there are ways that I kind of incorporate it into my business slowly but surely, but not I don't overdo. I don't overdo. Not quite there yet.
Speaker 1:Well, because I was teaching a class not too long ago and asked if anybody was using AI and most of them are like well, I've heard of it, or what is it?
Speaker 2:or how would you?
Speaker 1:use it. And oh, is that chat C3PO or something?
Speaker 2:Star Wars Wait, star Trek, star Wars yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I got to tell you I use this so much that it's just in. It's scary how much. I use it and do you know you can now talk to it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It talks back to you in a human voice. It's crazy. Even before I got on the podcast with you. Now today I said I just typed in the chat. I'm like, hey, I'm hosting a podcast interview and need some good questions for Nina Tulio, and it says great. Nina Tulio is a well-respected business coach and mentor for the beauty industry. Get out, so you'll want to ask questions that tap into her expertise and experience. Here are some thoughtful and engaging questions for your podcast interview.
Speaker 1:I love that and I got so many questions on it. Yes, like it's tapped into the internet, right now Absolutely, which is so scary because soon it's good we're going to be at a judgment day, just like Terminator, just like Arnold Schwarzenegger said in his Terminator movies and everything. It's scary. It's scary Because one day it's just going to be like people are so dumb we got to take over.
Speaker 2:Well, that's you know, of course we want to. It's kind of like when we have our phones, like sometimes honestly, because I'm so used to using my phone and typing and everything is so auto-corrected when I'm handwriting I forget how to spell.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to spell some words. I'm like, wait, you don't really know how to spell this. Are you kidding me? It takes me a minute. And so these things are great tools, but I personally don't want to lean on them so much that I forget how to spell and write. I think it's so important to make sure that we're still tapped in, but it does have a voice how to spell and write. You know, I think it's so important to make sure that we're still tapped in, but it does have a voice. You know, like we don't, we all have our own. The more you use chat, gpt, like sometimes I'll say write a blog with pricing and profit in Nina Tulio's voice, and it's funny because it'll use words. You know that I use which is.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is wild it's so crazy, like it knows my voice and what I sound like. So yeah, it's great, but I don't overdo.
Speaker 1:Right, I found it very useful for for tough conversations and, hey, I have a customer who is asking for this and I'm not sure how to say, how to refer back to my let's just say, my refund or no refund policy without, without, um, I don't know shaking their hopes for coming to us or creating any discomfort in our relationship. And how would I send a text or what would I say and how would I approach this conversation? It's just incredible what it comes up with for emails, for client text, for privacy policies, for everything. Now, yeah, I feel like it is important that we all learn how to incorporate it into our business, because it will save us hours and hours a week on monotonous type tasks.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm with you on that, absolutely yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's look at some of these questions that it's asking no-transcript what it looks like, what it looked like then, what it looks like today and how, how you cope with it and manage it.
Speaker 2:As you know, my eyes are wandering because I'm thinking about like when did this start? You know, I would say for sure in middle school, because I already had like stomach issues which were tied to my anxiety, and so, like I had to take like a muscle relaxer pill for my stomach just to make me eat because I would get. So that was where I would hold. All of my anxiousness would be in my stomach. So I would say early in my years of middle school, and it was a constant. It's still a constant. I feel like over the years, going through a lot of therapy and making sure that I am continuing to read books and invest in myself and learn more about myself and learn more honestly, learn more about anxiety, like I had to do a lot of research, like what does this actually mean and how do I navigate this? And with the help of therapy because that is what works for me I have found that I've been able to manage it. I've gotten a lot better with it. However, when something happens in my life that's pretty significant. It pulls me back in, and then I kind of revert back to my old ways of thinking and a lot of it is scarcity. What if this happens? What if that happens? Because when we are in an anxious state, we're living in the future and I'll start to do that and I have to really reel it in and really kind of talk to myself and say, no, you've got this, you're in control, let's not, let's not think too far ahead, let's try to really think about the now. So a lot of it is mindset for me and controlling those emotions. But it takes so much work to be able to do that. Um, and I've done all the different types of therapies and more recently doing EMDR, which has really helped Up and coming. I have something called brain spotting which I'm going to be doing this coming week with my therapist and it's, I guess, similar to EMDR but a little bit different, and working through trauma and pain and all of those things.
Speaker 2:And I think it's one of those things that I have accepted that I will have to continue to manage and I think the acceptance part was what helped me manage it. When we feel like when I would try to have such control over it and I would say, god, I wish this wouldn't happen and I get mad at myself and I would kind of beat myself up when I would have these panic attacks. I started to really flip the script, with the help of my therapist, saying hey, if you're looking for peace, you first have to start with acceptance. And I was just like. I sat there for a minute and I I'm like, well, why Can't I just get to the peace part? That would be amazing. She laughed but she said we really have to accept all parts of ourselves and you being an anxious person is part of who you are. In a lot of ways it's what allows you to be so fearless. It allows you to show up on stage. It allows you. There are a lot of good things that it allows you to do. So we have to embrace all of the components of it. And so, yes, it is managing.
Speaker 2:You know, it's been rough the past couple months. I just lost my mom, so that sent me into a tailspin. So all of those old emotions will start to come up and the what ifs will get louder. So all of those old emotions will start to come up and the what ifs will get louder and the questioning like having questioning myself and my decisions that will start to get louder. But I have learned that, I recognize it and I just kind of have to take a step back a little bit and really quiet my own mind, so then I can quiet my thoughts. So yeah, it's just a never ending thing. But there are a lot of resources and a lot of things and you know, people like you and me and we're talking about it and we, you know, want to help and make people feel like they're not alone.
Speaker 1:Well, first off, my heart goes out to you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Nothing you can really say, and you know I'm just always here for you. Thank, you, if you ever need to vent or, you know, scream or cry, I'm always here.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Second, you made me feel uncomfortable when you said acceptance and you talked about.
Speaker 1:You know, it first starts with acceptance and I felt myself like kind of wiggling around, I just like I just got to accept that I have toddlers and can't sleep for that reason. Right, I've been in a very recently and almost like a it's stupid to say, but it woes me kind of a mood because I know there's so many other, so many great things in my life and but we all go through these times of that are just than others, different seasons of life.
Speaker 1:That are trying and challenging, and it's been hard for me recently to see the sunshine every single day, and I've been looking more at what I don't have instead of what I do have. And you're right, it starts with that acceptance Accept where I'm at right now in the season of life do have, and you're right, I just need to. It starts with that acceptance, except that this is where I'm at right now in the season of life, and then I can start to move forward. Then I can start to see okay, I accept that this is a tough time right now for a lot of different reasons. And now that I know that, and now that I'm becoming more at peace with that Mm-hmm. People that love me and the people that I'm able to love, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:I just, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:It was only a matter of time till you cried.
Speaker 2:I know, I know Well, because I think when you said I'm having a hard time seeing the sun or that, just because I can relate to that and the fact that you're sharing that I think is so powerful, because it is a very scary place to be, and just to hear you say that sometimes I'm struggling to see the sun or the sunrise, or I can't even remember the exact words because my mind went into like how do I help you, how do I emotionally support you? What can I do, because it is a lonely place to be when you feel like, when will I see that sun again? When will I wake up and actually see it? I think you also mentioned too, that it is a season. We're not doctors here. You have to do and do things that are going to be good for you and reach out to doctors if that's what you need to do and feel that is right for you. But I think part of this is that we're all continuing to just learn new things about ourselves and we're learning that.
Speaker 2:The acceptance side of it although it made you feel uncomfortable, it was almost like a realization, right, because I think try so hard to control so much that we lose control and if it's just starting, simple and saying like this is what I have to be grateful for today. You know, and focusing on that it helps. It doesn't change things entirely, but it helps. And I think the importance of having these conversations and reaching out to friends and family and, you know, making sure that we're checking on our people, all the people, but our strong people, you know, um, I think it's so important because people see our lives and they see what we're doing and they just think that we're just good.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And you know, behind the scenes, for the majority of us there is something going on and I think being more kind to each other and being more patient with each other, but also being more patient with ourselves. And one thing I learned in therapy a long time ago was to take the word figure it out out of your vocabulary, because if we keep saying I have to figure it out, I have to figure it out, it puts pressure on us to actually have to figure it out but have to figure it out.
Speaker 2:It puts pressure on us to actually have to figure it out, but the good news is is that we actually don't we don't have to figure anything out, and as long as we continue to do and we continue to start to see that little glimmer of sun, things will unfold kind of as they as they need to, but the support side of it is so incredibly important.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad that you're opening up and sharing this with me, although my makeup's starting to run a little bit, so is mine, but yes, I mean, you know, I'm always here for you as well, and we've had these deep conversations and we share a lot of this in common, and I'm glad that this comes up, because there are so many people who struggle and you don't have to struggle alone and we're always here to help and support you.
Speaker 1:Right. And I think it's even extra tough on leaders, on role models that feel that sometimes when they're showing up in this whole hopeful and positive way but then they turn the camera off and they feel like shit, that they're not serving. And I think it is important that we are open about being authentic with where we're at and just letting people know that it's okay to not be, okay, you know, and that's. It's better than hiding it, tucking it away, for it to show its face 10 times worse later on. People are going to listen to you, they're going to trust you, they're going to believe you a lot more if you are your true, authentic self.
Speaker 2:And I think it's like losing the fact of being perfect all the time. You know, we had this like Instagram persona of what we're supposed to be and that's just kind of we're over that We've moved beyond and people want real people with real connections and real relationships.
Speaker 2:And you know, I just shared two days ago on my Instagram, like I'm just going through some things. You know, I'm still trying to grieve and I'm trying to run a business and live a life. And I just said on my Instagram I'm like I just have been struggling and sometimes I wake up and I don't know who I am or what I'm doing or if I'm doing things right or like what am I talking about? What's my message? Like I just am questioning everything Kind of like I mentioned.
Speaker 2:Before you go back into that space of like the what ifs and like who the hell am I Like? Why am I even teaching this? Are people going to listen or do they believe me? And sharing that actually is very cathartic, you know, because I know that it's helping other people, because people have DM me, they've messaged me, but they've also shared and posted like wow, I'm actually feeling like this too. You know, I can't believe that you're saying this because I've been going through it too and questioning myself, and so I think the more that we speak up on these things and stop trying to be so damn perfect, the better off.
Speaker 1:We'll be just as humans, but also, you know, in our community, in our industry. Absolutely. And this leads me to the. I guess you're going to be on stage again at hero um in this, several months from now, and we're going to have another big show here in San Diego. This is going to be what your third, third one.
Speaker 2:This is my third freaking one. Are you kidding me? I'm like over the moon about it.
Speaker 1:So going from like being anxious and and and having panic moments and then get on the stage in front of hundreds of people, thousands of people, um gosh. One, what's going through your mind? And two, what are you going to be bringing this year, with everything that is going on in the world, going on in your life? I know that you're always very relevant in what you do. What are we going to expect this year from Nina Tulio?
Speaker 2:Like a lot of times and I said this to you last year like I'm like I feel so much pressure because we are friends and you know I respect you and I want to like, if you're having me come back, like I need to show up, deliver. And so I showed a video last year of me behind the scenes, before you were getting ready, and I was doing my tapping technique that I learned in my therapy to help me kind of bring it down a little bit. But something happens when I get out there, it's like there's a switch that goes on, because then I see all the faces and oh, this is just making me going to cry. I think it's just because the why is so much deeper than my fear that when I see their faces I remember why I'm here. And so whatever I'm worried about and whatever I'm focused on or whatever is like kind of making me feel anxious, it all goes away because my why will always be bigger than my fear. And so this year I'm hoping with I really try to turn my pain into some source of power and empowerment. And so you know we're going to be talking business.
Speaker 2:Of course I don't really have all the details, but of course we'll be talking business. We're going to be talking business, of course. I don't, I don't, I don't really have all the details, but of course we'll be talking business. I'm sure we'll be talking money, um, but we're also probably going to maybe get in our fields a little bit and we're going to cry a little bit. You know, we scream every year and everybody gets mad because it hurts their ears, but it feels so damn good to get the scream out. Um, we release before we. It really does. You bring it every single year because every year it has gotten bigger and better, and it truly is one of my absolute favorite events that I ever, ever do, and I'm so thankful that you have me come back. And so just get ready, buckle up, bring some tissues, bring your dancing shoes, bring earplugs, bring all the things, because we're going to do a plethora, but you're going to learn a lot and it's going to be all business focused.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to see it. Well, thank you so much for showing up again as your authentic self. You're very bold, you're very brave and you're always very you. Thank you, and I appreciate that. I'm always here for you, as I know you are for me. And I can't wait to see you soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks, my friend, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
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